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stevenrasnick

Health System [Medics?]

265 posts in this topic

That was cool. One reason you don't see that much anymore is that most games follow a continuous campaign with a hero character. R6, and even OGR, were broken up into very distinct missions with time in between each one. So it made sense.

 

 

Games that are meant to be continous mission type missions are fine for the no time to heal, all out action games, but for the Tac-Sim genre, and especially the type of game you seem to be building, it wont be a continuous one. Sure, one mission may last a couple of days (even if there is no dynamic time in the actual game), but will you be right back out the door on your next one 20 minutes after you RTB? I think we will have a few days between missions to let our men heal if need be.

Edited by WhiteKnight77

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That was cool. One reason you don't see that much anymore is that most games follow a continuous campaign with a hero character. R6, and even OGR, were broken up into very distinct missions with time in between each one. So it made sense.

 

I'm afraid I'm agreeing with WK77 on this one. I think?

 

Even in GRAW, where we had the whole campaign happen over a few days (what, like 3?), it was unrealistic. I've never personally been HIT by a bullet yet (knocking on wood there), but I've seen enough of those. They don't heal overnight, much less in the time between a dozen or so missions that take place over 3 days, give or take.

 

In OGR, there were usually a few to several days between missions. It made sense that after a week or so, your SF guys were pretty much ready to fight again. I get it. CPT Mitchell back to full speed, no limp no pain, and all that, after only a couple hours? Not at all. I'd be worried about what sorts of opiates he's on to feel well again 3 hours after getting skulldragged by a .50cal HB on some street corner.

 

BUT this is not a do or die issue for me. If you incorporate the magically-restocking health-o-meter, I'll probably still play your game. Just don't expect me not to whine incessantly over it...

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I split all of the "Can a bullet knock me down" conversation into it's own thread.

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic......

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I posted this on the Infiltration forum about 4 years ago.

 

NOTE; obviously this system doesn't take armour into account, however some of the disorientation effects could be put in for hits that do not penetrate the vest/helmet. The big key is on having your accuracy and vision affected for a semi-random amount of time, depending on the round and where it hit. The concept needs some tweaking and fine tuning, but I think that it could work fairly well.

 

Also, the bandaging/medic details are purely out there in case medics or evacuating your wounded is in. If not, disregard.

 

 

* There is a base damage system for each of the rounds based on their wound profiles in RL, and other factors i.e the M855 5.56mm rounds are far more destructive to tissue than the 7.62X51 round when travelling at 2700fps or higher, between 2500-2700fps slightly more and less when below 2500fps.

 

Add to that proper hit locations (chest, stomach, arms etc) which increase, or in some situations decrease the damage by a random number of points. This would require per-poly hit detection which I think UT2003 has.

 

Finally, once the bullet hits, there is a random choice of what happens next, which varies in severity, depending on the bullet's total damage. The choices would be something like:

 

* Your screen shakes but you can keep on moving (i.e the bullet didn't hit any vital organs or blood vessels) and shooting with some minor penalties (otherwise people would be shrugging off hits), and your speed and stamina are reduced. Maybe your screen flashes red for a second then goes back to normal. You'll be bleeding, and although it's not life-threatening, it'd still be a good idea to bandage to help reduce that blood trail you're leaving behind.

 

 

(Assuming chest shot)

 

* Your vision goes red temporarily and your stamina, movement speed and ability to aim accurately become much slower/poorer. Your vision and body sway somewhat and your arms wobble. You cough or gasp loudly after being shot. (again random) Your vision clears but then after about 15-20 seconds, it starts fading to black and as that happens you fall over and die. Random factors would be the length of time before you fall over, the speed of fading to black and the degree of movement/weapon aim punishment. I can't stress that last part enough, otherwise people would realise what's happening and pull a Rambo before dying.

 

* Essentially same as above, except that you may drop your weapon (still can draw your secondary).

 

* Your screen shakes a bit and you fall over (again random time before you fall), however you can still move prone (or slowly roll over to prone if you fall on your back). Your vision keeps redding out but you can still aim and move prone, albeit with some difficulty. This time you last for a little longer before dying (fade to black), but (if bandages ever get added in), if you use bandages, you get a temporary reprieve from death for say a minute, depending on the random factor (this would give a teammate enough time to carry you to a "safe" spot in the map, and you survive). Of course, if you were really lucky, you could be carried to a safe spot by a teammate with the first scenario).

 

* Same as above except that you stagger instead of falling down, and maybe you can only crouch and move.

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The slower movement after wounds as in OGR, blurred vision following the concussion of explosives and also, the transfer of health as in Dystopia appeal to me. That HL2 mod and FEAR Combat are the best cyber bootcamp I've ever showed up for!

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That HL2 mod... the best cyber bootcamp I've ever showed up for!

Do you mean SMOD:Tactical? It was okay. The more realistic weapons and some other things were okay, but I found some of the things were kind of clunky. But then again, it is a mod.

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How about using the Ghost Recon method of replacing wounded/dead team members but without the increasing stats? The more casualties you sustain, the smaller the available pool of talent is. You'd still have incentive to keep your team alive - especially if the replacements available have a lower skill set, since you know you can never replace the skill level your top members have once they are dead.

Edited by Fumarole

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what about anxiety and those kinds of factors? I mean you hear it all the time on the news about how a soldier didnt realize that he was hit until he saw it or one of his buddies told him...and how about losing conscienceness and your AI buddies automatically setup a defensive perimeter thing or drags you and the team medic begins working on you until you wake again...

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Pardon me, but some of that just seems a little "out there".

 

We need to remember that this is a video game. I, for one, do not want the development team spending time on creating moments of unconsciousness and battlefield anxiety, and spending time on fitting them into gameplay, and spending time making sure it's not clunky or random, and spending time o--

 

You get the picture... Don't we want most of the development going towards very (and I mean VERY) solid, tactical gameplay? Am I the only one fine with this kind of health system?:

 

Chest, Head - One shot kill

Belly - Two shot kill

Arms - Accuracy plummets

Legs - Walking slows, you limp

 

I'd rather have no visible meter, number, etc. Maybe, whenever you get shot, a blue icon pops up in the shape of a human silhouette. The area where you were hit would be red. Then you would know how close to death you were, just by knowing the above.

Edited by stevenrasnick

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Pardon me, but some of that just seems a little "out there".

 

We need to remember that this is a video game. I, for one, do not want the development team spending time on creating moments of unconsciousness and battlefield anxiety, and spending time on fitting them into gameplay, and spending time making sure it's not clunky or random, and spending time o--

 

You get the picture... Don't we want most of the development going towards very (and I mean VERY) solid, tactical gameplay? Am I the only one fine with this kind of health system?:

 

Chest, Head - One shot kill

Belly - Two shot kill

Arms - Accuracy plummets

Legs - Walking slows, you limp

 

I'd rather have no visible meter, number, etc. Maybe, whenever you get shot, a blue icon pops up in the shape of a human silhouette. The area where you were hit would be red. Then you would know how close to death you were, just by knowing the above.

Absolutely true, but still I think only having above situations is to minor. I really would like to have the oppertunity to salvage a team member from his/her death.

 

No Man/Woman Is Left Behind!

 

In the time from getting shot up to the point of incapacitation/death the aiming and movements willl get worse and worse. If medics are gonna be in the game (I assume so) a medic should not be able to magicaly cure a person. A medic should only stop the bleeding which enhances just a little bit of decreased aiming/movement or stops the decrease of worse aiming/movement. If a teammember doesn't seek a medic after having a serious wound he can get incapacitated or bleed to death. This way it pays off to seek a medic as soon as you are shot. If he stops the bleeding early you will 'feel' less worse then when you are to the point of getting incapacitated.

 

I really liked the rescue function in Full Spectrum Warrior. Where you could carry an incapacitated member to a safe zone. The difference to me should be that if (s)he is delivered there (s)he goes off to the hospital and is only available after a few -ingame- 'weeks' (1 or 2 missions) with slightly decreased stat pionts (in stamina or some sort). If the drop off point is a safe zone it would be nice if I was reinforced by (a) new team member(s) (with less stat points).

 

I think it isn't NORG if you proceed into a mission while being "Combat Ineffective" by the loss of (a) team member(s).

 

[edit]

That just comes to me. I always hated the GR missions that just faded out if your team was combat ineffective or lost an objective (killed a civillian or lost a or to many team member(s) for instance). To me a mission always has to end at the moment I am extracting or allied reinforcements are moving in towards my position (relieving my duty).

 

Sorry for the off topic

[/edit]

Edited by Toniezz

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Absolutely true, but still I think only having above situations is to minor. I really would like to have the oppertunity to salvage a team member from his/her death.

 

No Man/Woman Is Left Behind!

 

In the time from getting shot up to the point of incapacitation/death the aiming and movements willl get worse and worse. If medics are gonna be in the game (I assume so) a medic should not be able to magicaly cure a person. A medic should only stop the bleeding which enhances just a little bit of decreased aiming/movement or stops the decrease of worse aiming/movement. If a teammember doesn't seek a medic after having a serious wound he can get incapacitated or bleed to death. This way it pays off to seek a medic as soon as you are shot. If he stops the bleeding early you will 'feel' less worse then when you are to the point of getting incapacitated.

 

I really liked the rescue function in Full Spectrum Warrior. Where you could carry an incapacitated member to a safe zone. The difference to me should be that if (s)he is delivered there (s)he goes off to the hospital and is only available after a few -ingame- 'weeks' (1 or 2 missions) with slightly decreased stat pionts (in stamina or some sort). If the drop off point is a safe zone it would be nice if I was reinforced by (a) new team member(s) (with less stat points).

 

I think it isn't NORG if you proceed into a mission while being "Combat Ineffective" by the loss of (a) team member(s).

 

[edit]

That just comes to me. I always hated the GR missions that just faded out if your team was combat ineffective or lost an objective (killed a civillian or lost a or to many team member(s) for instance). To me a mission always has to end at the moment I am extracting or allied reinforcements are moving in towards my position (relieving my duty).

 

Sorry for the off topic

[/edit]

 

No your point is quite valid because the health system ties directly into mission success/faliure parameters.

 

I'm generally very sceptical about the usual way of doing things. I mean, in most "realistic" games you can get shot in the legs and arms, torso and head (at least when wearing helmet and body armor) and while your mobility and weapons accuracy is reduced, you can still move around and shoot. I have strong doubts about the ability of even the most elite SOF to keep proceeding with the mission with a bullethole in each limb plus on in the body armor and a dent in the helmet.

 

But the more realistic alternative would seem to leave you with "dead weight" as soon as one team member is hit and the mission is essentially over. This I fear would lead to rather boring gameplay.

 

But I'm completely stumped by this. Obviously, realism won't do any good if it makes the game boring and pointless. I do believe BFS will not let this issue mess up the gameplay, but I'm not sure there is a "right" solution.

 

Respectfully

 

krise madsen

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Krise, take a look at the post by SnowFella @ the "One shot one Kill" thread. He gives a good preview on how also think it would be nice to implement.

 

I know in Full Spectrum Warrior it wasn't that good worked out. FSW was awefull in that aspect because if you got a member killed, the mission was over. Only one wounded member was allowed and you had to carry him into safety. Again, awefull gameplay but the idea about carrying a member into safety was a good one.

This immediately changed your gameplay. Instead of a full squad, being able to take the upper hand in a firefight, you had to move slowly. Remember, you lost one teammember by casualty and another member who has to carry the wounded person. So your squad is minus 2 persons.

 

In the end teamplay is needed to get those wounded/dead guys into a safe zone. Possibly you could also decide to leave the dead but this could penalty you in credits (MP) or worse player stats for reinforcement soldiers (SP; only rookies are assigned under your command) etc.

 

Also my thought about using credits is only something extra you can use to reflect your own performance. Like in SP you can complete all mission objectives and have a mission success but the credit score tells you if you could do better a next time. Same in MP COOP.

 

In MP TvT you could go for the idea that every member you(r team) kill(s) you are rewarded with 3 credits. For every enemy team member you seriously wound (incapacitated) and is no more combat effective, you get 2 credits.

Next to that you can earn credits by saving/rescueing incapacitated and dead teammates. For every dead or incapacitated member that you save from the battlefield you get 1 credit.

 

Well just a thought explained in a horrible way. Sorry I don't seem to be able writing my thoughts in better words. :sweating:

 

[edit]

By creating a health system which SnowFella describes I think your concern about people walking on the battlefield with two broken kneecaps, 3 bullts in the chest and 4 in the arms is no longer possible to happen. ;)

[/edit]

Edited by Toniezz

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Ah, but I'm mainly concerned with SP and coop, hence the confusion :)

 

I guess I just have trouble transplanting the basic ideas and concepts (there are some really good ones, including yours and Snowfellas) into the game as I foresee it. Probably I'm just getting old :rolleyes:

 

Respectfully

 

krise madsen

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Crisis, I absolutely agree with your point. I also doubt if I would be able to limp over the battlefield due to a shot in the leg and still are able to shoot tango's. Thats why I really like Snow's idea.

 

You get shot? Ok, you need a medic (or just one of yourr teammates) to stop the bleeding (first aid). If you do that very fast and the injury isn't that heavy ('just' a flesh wound, no penetration to the bone) you are still able to limp a bit and mix in the fight.

 

But, if you get shot in the leg and you don't seek help you will loose blood and your situation gets worse by time. Even if you decide to go and have a walk with that bleeding wound the bleeding will only get heavier and your situation gets worse even faster. It can get even that worse that you can't stand on your feet anymore and become incapacitated.

 

Being incapacited or dead you no longer have control over your body. But your teammates can reduce the damage (rescue credits or extra reinforcements) by bringing back your (incapacitated) body home. No One Is Left Behind!

 

I think there is some sound in it.

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Crisis, I absolutely agree with your point. I also doubt if I would be able to limp over the battlefield due to a shot in the leg and still are able to shoot tango's. Thats why I really like Snow's idea.

 

You get shot? Ok, you need a medic (or just one of yourr teammates) to stop the bleeding (first aid). If you do that very fast and the injury isn't that heavy ('just' a flesh wound, no penetration to the bone) you are still able to limp a bit and mix in the fight.

 

But, if you get shot in the leg and you don't seek help you will loose blood and your situation gets worse by time. Even if you decide to go and have a walk with that bleeding wound the bleeding will only get heavier and your situation gets worse even faster. It can get even that worse that you can't stand on your feet anymore and become incapacitated.

 

Being incapacited or dead you no longer have control over your body. But your teammates can reduce the damage (rescue credits or extra reinforcements) by bringing back your (incapacitated) body home. No One Is Left Behind!

 

I think there is some sound in it.

 

OK, I'm with you so far, and pretty much in agreement. But I still have no idea how to implement this in relation to mission parameters (SP/coop). *shrugs*

 

Respectfully

 

krise madsen

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Ok, maybe this explains a bit more? :unsure:

 

Mission parameters? In the meaning of objectives ? :unsure:

 

Yes mission parameters in the meaning of "when is it game over"? From my perspective there are some serious realism vs. playability issues but I just don't know. To be honest I'm not terribly concerned.

 

I would like to avoid the worst of the primitive health setups, such as a hitpoint system where you retain full combat capability until your counter reaches zero at which point you die, and the same goes for the AI. Likewise I would like to avoid super-human player health (in SP). But beyond that I'm rather flexible. A very sophisticated and realistic health setup is fine as long as it works properly. I'm not too worried about this game though.

 

Respectfully

 

krise madsen

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Correct, I hate healthmeters and numbers. :nono: Nah you will notice by your breathing, vision and other means that you are hurting. As soon as you are dead or incapacitated you are game over (into deadcam mode). Though your mates can try and get your body back to base for some extra points or other rewards.

 

In conclusion:

- I like the idea of medics, but if not then that is ok

- I like the idea of realtime health simulation as Snowfella discribed

- I like the idea of different damage types by bullets on different body part, from simple to sophisticated, as long as it is sound with the gameplay

- I like the idea of being rewarded in some way or another if you carry a dead of wounded team mate into safety

- I like Italian ice-cream, but that is another topic! :drool:

 

:thumbsup:

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It is a realistic feature, but I think it would kind of be out of place to design their engine to let you pick up allies and move them around. I think that idea kind of goes past the realism that makes games good, and the extra features that aren't really needed but would be nice to have.

 

I disagree on this one...

 

Scenario:

 

Your buddy gets shot in the legs and can't really walk, but he's still conscious and can fire a weapon. You pick him up and move him to overlook a particular kill zone. Prop him up, and he can cover the area "almost as well" as anyone with working legs. This would work in single player, and would be a ground-breaking game ability in multi-player: a buddy who is downed but still can fire a weapon now has something important to do instead of waiting around for the next round to start!

 

In tandem with a medic who would patch up the wounded player to prevent him from bleeding profusely (which would otherwise render him dead/unconscious after a period of time), a system like this would be very plausible, and NORG proofed.

 

I can already imagine the game critics raving at these options alone.

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Let?s work through the question of health and damage logically.

 

What are the possible conditions?

- Unharmed

- Injured

- Incapacitated

- Dead

 

That?s pretty easy. Now what are the ways we could progress from one condition to another?

  • Recovery from a temporary injury. Example: get the wind knocked out of you, hearing or vision loss from flashbang
  • Injury worsens, leading to incapacitation. Examples: Bleeding, walking on a damage leg.
  • Injuries while incapacitated lead to death. Examples: Bleeding
  • Additional damage done (fall damage, bullets/explosions).

What are the ways you can prevent a condition progression?

 

- Stop bleeding.

- That?s about it.

 

What are the possible effects of different conditions?

 

Well, incapacitation means you ain't doing anything.. and dead means dead. So, let's considering injuries.

  1. Temporary

    1. Vision or hearing impaired
    2. Stunned/wind knocked out
    3. Shock (resulting in poor aim, slowed movement, tunnel vision, etc)

[*]Permanent

  1. Upper body injuries
    • Impaired aim to varying degree. A shot in the right arm, VERY bad for aim. A shot in the gut or back, you?ll still have trouble.
    • Impaired ability to climb ladders, mantle over objects.

[*]Lower body injuries

  • Impaired movment (including climbing). Severe injury may prevent ANY movement.
  • Impaired transition from prone to upright

[*]Systemic

  • Impairments as a result of bloodloss. Vision, strength necessary for movement, endurance.

Implications

 

With MP Team Adversarial in mind (my primary focus), what are the possible implications? Well, if you had a scoring system that is more than just rounds won, you could give points for the health of the winning team. Winning the round with no injuries is better than 1 out 8 still standing. This would provide an incentive to manage injuries.

 

In terms of managing injuries, the big question is will the game be military action based (like GR) or counter terror (like R6). A military sim would probably have a unit that includes a corpsman or medic capable of specialized emergency medical response. A CT based game would probably rely on a team of dedicated shooters, but all of which have received basic combat first aid training. So if it?s a CT game, anyone could whip out a field dressing and bandage someone who is injury (stopping or slowing the progression to worse health condition). It would even be possible for someone to apply their own field dressing to something like a leg injury, assuming their conscious and not in shock.

 

Implications for a singleplayer campaign might be time to recover (assuming full recovery is possible). If you rendered emergency medical help, a team member may survive the mission and return to active duty after some time. However, if help is delayed or not given, that person may not return to active duty or may die of injuries in the field or afterwards.

 

 

Impact of Damage

 

Oh, fantastic NORG question. It could be really simple, like Raven Shield? one or two shots and you?re toast. If you survive a shot, the location definse the injury and the associated impairment(s). Or if you really wanna have fun? do a ballistics system that determines how rounds defeat (or fail to defeat) body armor. A 9mm pistol round to center mass on an armored target probably won?t do much. A 7.62x51mm (.308 winchester) rifle round to center mass on a target wearing Dragon Skin from Pinnacle Armor will probably not be lethal or cause bleeding, but may knock the wind out of you. But on the otherhand? shots to the leg or arms could be brutal. And a headshot, pretty much no matter what, will be the end of you. So the big question is? Will damage be modeled on actual ballistics and body armor characteristics?

 

Conclusions

 

I think a system taking into account all of these factors would be very interesting. But I?m not certain that will make for the best gameplay. It might change the way we play a bit? Imagine not being able to drop a well-armored opponent after giving them a triple tap in the chest with an assault rifle. That?s realistic, but I?m not sure that?s how I want things to be. On the other hand, it will mean I have to aim more for arms, legs or head to put a person down, which I think I can manage. My preference is for Rogue Spear/Raven Shield-type damage. I like dropping an opponent with one or two well-placed rifle rounds. I like having a pistol be a viable secondary weapon. I think I?d be happy with adding more detail to the determination of injuries and their impairments, but fundamentally I want people out of the game when they get nailed.

 

Additional Comments

 

I'm opposed to dragging injured people. The only reason you would ever move someone is to get them out of the line of fire. Movie heroics aside... you field treat until you can medevac. Move only to get out to get out of the line of fire.

 

Depending on the context, you'll probably manage casualties differently. In a hostage rescue type situation, you'll probably step over your downed buddy on your way to finish the mission. You've got just a couple of minutes to either have a successful rescue or end up with a full on TARFU or FUBAR. By the time you've applied a field dressing, the tangos have either been taken down or they've splattered all of the hostages. If it's a military engagement, you might have the time, depending on how tight your mission plan is. But in a practical sense, if you're a Navy SEAL and you snapped your leg on the drop into the mission... you might be left until the team finishes the objective and picks you up on the way out. That's a completely different story from how a casualty would be managed in a large scale field engagement. It's completely different whether it's special operations behind enemy lines, counter terror in an urban environment, or convential warfare with a complete casualty management system going from medics in the units to Foward Surgical Teams on the front lines and ending up at Walter Reed in Washington DC. So it has to be appropriate to the context of the game (which we don't have yet).

 

Last... I don't want to play a medic simulator. I want to play a tactical shooter.

 

 

-m

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I would be interestesd in hearing suggestions for alternative penalty/rewards system for keeping or losing men.

 

Well heres my 2 cents. If your a leader & you get a team member killed then your leadership should go down in influence ie: AI may not always obey your command or may just be a bit reluctant to do so. As an idea only.

Note being funny here but if a Squad leader got one of my team mates killed by issuing a command...Id think twice about the next order I received :)

 

Back to the start - Health System.

On screen indicator is OK Green Amber Red bar or Injury icon of character with damage to which body part. Why have it on screen? Cos if NORG Id feel PAIN & Id know if that pain was coming from my leg, arm or wherever.

 

Impact of injuries - This is different to the original thread but something that has naturally developed from it. Impacts should be dependant on wher you are hit. If youve go a graze on the arm then the impact would be insignificant. However if you are fatally wounded youd have blood pi$$ing out everywhere & not be able to lift your weapon. Dont get me wrong Im not talking of the extremes of legs being blown off, although cool Id rather the game was playable & not too CPU intensive :) It all also bring the age restriction down a bit :)

 

Self Healing/Medic - The practicalities I would guess are dependant on the mission at hand. Would a Medic escort a squad on an assault or Recce? Field dressings are standard but only support light wounds. Self Healing by staying alive is a NO-NO IMHO unless your sat in a hospital for days/weeks/months.

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I see two ways of doing it...

 

The playable abstraction: OGR basically had this down to an art if you ask me. Just add in medical assistance for soldiers who go down (including checking to see if they are dead or not) and you've got something thats already awesome and ready to add straight from the box :D

 

The detailed simulation: I'm now going to annoy everyone by refering to a game that very few people here are likely to have heard of or played... Dwarf Fortress.

 

Dwarf Fortress is a rogue-like game with dungeon keeper-like elements set in a randomly generated world. It model all its living creatures as organs with specific functions - injury or loss of organs/limbs have the expected results. In addition, pain and bloodloss are tracked. It is quite possible to die from a single high-shock wound due to massive pain, or bleed to death within moments due to a heart wound. Or be slowly and excrutiatingly ripped apart by a mob of clawing/biting/tearing monsters. Lose a finger, lose a hand, lose an arm. Do you pass out? Can you still move? Its all in the system and its very, very neat to see the wide range of results you get when you put a body in physical danger.

 

The wonderful thing about it is that because its turn based and text based you have all the time you want to realise the full extent of what is happening to your poor character (or victim :devil: ), like when I rounded a corner only to take an arrow in the chest - puncturing both my lungs and heart. I knew I was dead - but it didn't drop me instantly and I got a single chance to act! So I threw my hammer at the archer :D Hell - I even hit the git (though unfortuantly didn't seem to do much other than cause a bruise).

 

Anyway. OGR had a wide enough selection of effects for general non-incapacitating wounds - I think just expanding that to include a host of incapacitated effects and results that don't mean death and can lead to recovery would be neat.

 

It all depends how much detail you want in something that effectivally amounts to "can shoot/can't shoot".

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Someone early in this thread suggested not having any kind of health indicator.

 

While I can see where this idea comes from, and also see the merit in it, I'm not so sure that's such a good idea.

 

In real life, we can feel how badly we are hurt. We can feel what our bodies will let us do when we are hurt. Sometimes, you could get the exact same injury on 5 different people, and they would all react or be able to deal with it and act at 5 different levels because some people can deal with pain better and all of that.

 

However, having a health indicator, since we can't feel or really see what is happening to us online is a good idea, I think, so we can see what's happening with our character.

 

In my mind, it also levels the playing field.

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Well heres my 2 cents. If your a leader & you get a team member killed then your leadership should go down in influence ie: AI may not always obey your command or may just be a bit reluctant to do so. As an idea only.

Note being funny here but if a Squad leader got one of my team mates killed by issuing a command...Id think twice about the next order I received :)

 

....

 

I actually like that idea as a penalty for handling wounded team members.

 

If a team member gets wounded and you leave him out to die, the AI "morale" will degrade.

 

Actually, any death will degrade AI morale. It can probably be worse if you ignore a wounded teammember and don't do anything to help him (dress the wounds or something), as opposed to someone dying immediately as a consequence of a clean head shot or something.

 

As for morale degradation: AI will have less precision in aiming, slower in obeying orders, will take cover and take less risks and pay less attention to surroundings (they are worried and distracted by the loss of a team member of course), thus they will be less aggressive and more vulnerable to enemies flanking them.

 

And this can carry over as you roll into new missions.

 

So, making sure you come home with everyone you started out with, should be a high priority because if you don't, you'll lose your AI team effectiveness.

 

On the flipside, always finishing a mission with everyone still alive means having a team that is more and more responsive and effective and aggressive since will they have more confidence in you as a leader.

 

Losing a soldier due to wounds would affect team "morale" less negatively than death (of course) and getting replacements for KIA team members would also degrade AI performance since replacements would not be as well integrated with the rest of the team.

 

Just my 2c.

 

PS: hello everyone. :w00t:

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Someone early in this thread suggested not having any kind of health indicator.

 

While I can see where this idea comes from, and also see the merit in it, I'm not so sure that's such a good idea.

 

In real life, we can feel how badly we are hurt. We can feel what our bodies will let us do when we are hurt. Sometimes, you could get the exact same injury on 5 different people, and they would all react or be able to deal with it and act at 5 different levels because some people can deal with pain better and all of that.

 

However, having a health indicator, since we can't feel or really see what is happening to us online is a good idea, I think, so we can see what's happening with our character.

 

In my mind, it also levels the playing field.

 

What exactly is the point of a health indicator in a game when any shot can be lethal?

 

I honestly don't understand why we want to know anything other than "oh ######, I'm moving slow" or "my aims all over the place" neither of which need seperate indicators. Other that these obvious effects we're either able to fight or not. and if we aren't then we don't need the indicator anymore...

 

Plus I don't see how it "...levels the playing field." if everyone is operating on the same lack of knowledge anyway. You shouldn't be thinking "I can take one more hit" and that is - to my mind - what any trackable health indicator promotes.

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