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WhiteKnight77

Thoughts On Piracy

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In my opinion he clearly hasn't purchased any games that belong to that French company with some of the things he says. I have no issue with anyone going down the try before you buy method with that company they don't support there consumers nor there game so I guess he's talking about me on a few of those points..............

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Bota:16   

When developers/publisher quit making AAA games for PC, we will only have the PC culture to blame. Until there becomes an almost failsafe form of DRM, then this problem will not go away. UBI has gone as far as purposely putting critical bugs in the release of a game and then offer a patch the day of release. There was some news on this recently for Assasin Creed.

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MONOLITH   
we will only have the PC culture to blame.

 

 

To be fair, the 'gaming' culture is to blame.

 

If pirating console software was easy to do, it would be just as bad there. It's a PC issue not because of PC gamers, but because of the ease of pirating on the PC.

 

And it's not just games obviously, there are tons of illegal unlicensed copies of photoshop and 3DsMax floating around from hand to hand in the modding world.

 

But don't blame just one platform, it's simply human beings in general.

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Bota:16 I have two Sim pay ware lemon aircraft from two different developer that had major issues just with the craft it self and while emailing my concerns and findings (including screenshots) to the companies with no fix forth coming and broken promises they no longer respond to my emails. They have my money and I'm left holding a failed purchase. One of the developers has a really bad DRM that is very cumbersome plus a right pain in the @ss to get working should you alter any of the files to better suit realism and taste.

 

So $100 buck out of pocket I searched a wares site and found that the Aircraft has been cracked and had the issues fixed that I brought to the attention of the developers and the DRM removed. This was all done by the clever crackers when the developers could not fix or resolve the issues they had created so Guess what? I downloaded the pirated version and using it too this day so I'm guilty of being a pirate.

 

That French company has also been busted using a cracked .exe file that crackers made to fix problems and placing it up for download as there own fix so you got to laugh at that.

 

I have recorded TV shows etc and passed on to friends that were not home to watch it and they do the same for me at times so again I'm guilty of being a pirate. I also got a stack of old 78's and vinyl records that I was too lazy too convert nor have the software too do but wanted on my PC in MP3 format so I just searched torrent sites until I found my albums of the ones I wanted/quality and downloaded so again I'm a pirate with this and everything above I mentioned and while it's a grey area bottom line I pirated. :nono:

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The way I read the blog, all he's saying is that people pirate simply because they can (and can get away with it), which is probably true. He then lists a series of reasons why no, it isn't really OK to pirate (and those excuses are pretty sad), with which I agree as well. No biggie really. Sadly, I doubt anyone who pirate games will listen.

 

The blogger makes one interesting point about buying the game and then downloading a cracked copy to circumvent the DRM and then e-mail the publisher to let them know that he doesn't like being bugged by DRM that doesn't work. And the proof is in the pudding: Since he can download a cracked version, the DRM doesn't work, and thus any inconvenience the DRM causes him is unnecessary and avoidable.

 

When developers/publisher quit making AAA games for PC, we will only have the PC culture to blame. Until there becomes an almost failsafe form of DRM, then this problem will not go away.

 

Agreed. IMHO, the "fight" between gamers and industry over DRM is not that gamers face some inconvenience in order for the industry to curtail piracy. Both agree that piracy is bad for everyone. The fight is over DRM that inconvenience the gamers without doing much of anything against piracy. We all accept various inconveniences every day becuase we know it's for the greater good. Few of us willingly accept inconveniences that don't do squat for anyone.

 

Like requiring the disc in the drive to play. Having to switch discs is a fairly minor annoyance, but I'm a complete slob who scratches or even breaks my discs regularly; the disc-in-drive requirement is a disaster for me. Yet if a disc-in-drive DRM truly curtailed piracy then I would happily accept it. Even if it only stops pirated versions for the first weeks or months after release (apparently some wants to play the game immediately and will buy if they can't pirate), I'd accept it if I could expect a no-CD patch resonably soon after a working crack shows up on bit torrent sites.

 

When developers/publisher quit making AAA games for PC, we will only have the PC culture to blame. Until there becomes an almost failsafe form of DRM, then this problem will not go away. UBI has gone as far as purposely putting critical bugs in the release of a game and then offer a patch the day of release. There was some news on this recently for Assasin Creed.

 

If you're referring to Ubi's lawsuit against the disc duplicator that leaked Assassins Creed, then that's not correct. Code was removed (it made certain levels not load) from the pre-Gold work-in-process version as a watermark to track leaks. When people (having pirated the game) started commenting on the "bug" (levels not loading), Ubi was able to track the leak to the duplicator. The Gold version did not have this missing code (though I'm sure there were other bugs).

 

Of course, if you're referring to another bug then just forget what I said :)

 

Respectfully

 

krise madsen

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I searched a wares site and found that the Aircraft has been cracked and had the issues fixed that I brought to the attention of the developers and the DRM removed. This was all done by the clever crackers when the developers could not fix or resolve the issues they had created so Guess what? I downloaded the pirated version and using it too this day so I'm guilty of being a pirate.

 

Not if you paid for it in the first place, at least not in my book. :) And good for you letting the developers know. That's the only way we can make progress on this issue.

 

Respectfully

 

krise madsen

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Nemesis   

What can be engineered, can be reverse engineered. PERIOD.

Pir8's will always exist as much as programmer / devellopers hate it....its inherent in the process of design.

 

Do a nut & bolt up on a car....then the nut & bolt can be undone. Use a glue to weld the nut & bolt so its tight then it cen be reveresed by using an opposing solvent.

 

...it goes on & on.

The only edge is TIME.

 

A devellpoper can create an algorithm that will lock wares & now in TIME the pir8 will crack it. So the only way to secure the item is to have a changing algorithm that is NOT programmed but is downloaded to keep the wares secure.

A bit like change the solution of glue daily on the nut & bolt with a differing solution.

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galzohar   

Like I said on other threads, I think the only way to significantly reduce piracy is to provide an online service that most players will want, and that has some kind of upkeep requirements so that nobody will do it for free, at least not well. That way if you're not paying you're not enjoying the whole product, and if the product is good and the service makes it noticeably better, then people will pay.

 

World of Warcraft is a classic example, as the whole game is pretty much a service of its own. More simple examples are warcraft 3 and diablo 2, where you can play cracked offline but can't find players to play with online without their service which requires a legal and unique CD-key, and you need the large player pool to have quality gaming - you can find a friend that will play with you once a week, but not every day all day. You can make your own pirated service, but nobody will actually want to keep something like that running, and the player pool will be much smaller due to needing to actually know how to use the pirated service and will be split upon different pirated services. So if you really like the game, you pretty much have to buy it.

 

Even something more simple like high frequency patching that will require excessive work to pirate and will provide noticeable and desireably improvements to the game is not as good, but can be enough to make people want to buy the game so they can keep up with the coolest stuff available, and not spend a large % of the time they want to play waiting for someone to crack the new version. Or even hosting fast, reliable, well-moderated servers with a good server-finding system that requires a legal and unique CD-key may be more than enough.

 

At the end, if you want to sell to people that will not buy what can be achieved for free, you need to add to your sale something that cannot be achieved for free. Which obviously means that if your product is lower quality than the pirated product, you can forget about selling copies to the majority of the gamers.

Edited by galzohar

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When developers/publisher quit making AAA games for PC, we will only have the PC culture to blame. Until there becomes an almost failsafe form of DRM, then this problem will not go away. UBI has gone as far as purposely putting critical bugs in the release of a game and then offer a patch the day of release. There was some news on this recently for Assasin Creed.

 

So people only need to wait for the V1.1 crack instead :shifty:

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Bota:16   
To be fair, the 'gaming' culture is to blame.

 

If pirating console software was easy to do, it would be just as bad there. It's a PC issue not because of PC gamers, but because of the ease of pirating on the PC.

 

And it's not just games obviously, there are tons of illegal unlicensed copies of photoshop and 3DsMax floating around from hand to hand in the modding world.

 

But don't blame just one platform, it's simply human beings in general.

 

It's why I said PC Culture and not gaming culture. It is far too easy to pirate games/music/software on a PC. On a console it typically involves some kind of hardware mod in order to do it. Not many console gamers are willing to risk bricking thier console to do it. Does it still happen? Yes, but small compared to PC piracy. Would you physically alter your motherboard on your PC in order to use pirated IP knowing if you messed up you would have to buy a new motherboard? Doubtful and neither would a very large majority of PCers. That's why I am saying until there is an almost foolproof "anti-piracy" measure (DRM probably wasn't the best word to use in my original post), more than likely on the hardware side, nothing is going to change.

 

 

 

So people only need to wait for the V1.1 crack instead :shifty:

 

True but the ones who want to play it as soon as it comes out will be SOL. Eventually all versions will be cracked at some point, all it does is buys time for the publisher.

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Crow   

I've found that people who pirate games usually only pirate it if it they would not buy it in the first place. I know a couple of guys who just try out games that they would not spend money on if they couldn't pirate it. For games that they actually believe in, and like where the company is going, usually give up the money for the game. I'm not saying if this is right or wrong, but I think that is a pretty common thought process for people who pirate games.

Edited by Crow

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MONOLITH   
It's why I said PC Culture and not gaming culture.

 

I gotcha now.

 

When I first read it, I interpreted your use of "PC culture" as a reference to PC Gamers. But I'm realizing now that's not what you meant. :thumbsup:

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I've found that people who pirate games usually only pirate it if it they would not buy it in the first place. I know a couple of guys who just try out games that they would not spend money on if they couldn't pirate it. For games that they actually believe in, and like where the company is going, usually give up the money for the game. I'm not saying if this is right or wrong, but I think that is a pretty common thought process for people who pirate games.

People are very good at justifying un-ethical behaviour.

 

After all

  • One less sale isn't going to hurt a big company.
  • If it is any good I'll definate go out and buy it, some day, definately, maybe.
  • Big companies are evil so i should not support them.
  • If i support small companies they will become big and EVIL. Better not support them either.
  • I'm strapped for money at the moment, i'll just pirate stuff until i can afford to buy it.
  • Its the companies fault, I wouldn't download it if it wasn't so easy.
  • The pirated version doesn't have any of the anti piracy stuff, so it is better. Why pay for an inferior product?

The list goes on and on. At the end of the day it doesn't stop what you are doing being wrong. And it doesn't stop what you are doing damaging an industry and those who work in it. And the knock on effect is less money for companies to produce good quality games which we all enjoy playing.

Edited by Relinquish

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Grendel   

There are a million things that I could discuss here. In fact, I've already written about a twenty page article on this, but I will refrain from posting all of it, because it will result in a childish fist-fight about who is the just man.

 

Just keep in mind, also, that some products are never released legally in certain regions of the world. That leaves potential fans in a bit of a peculiar position.

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When RB6:V came out I couldn't find a demo to try it out first...coz it had mixed reviews.

I remember asking around about Torrent-this-that, but end up holding off altogether until it was $17.

There I noticed a trend on no-demo games <_< I end up boycotting those games...forgot which ones... :unsure:

 

Now I'm looking at a movie editing software coz it has features that I suck in. But after some slideshow/movie :whistle: I knew I suck at it, so paying $100 on something that will suck anyway, I thought, hell I'll just pirate it.

 

Then again, IF I get caught & go to prison, then the person I intend to impress with video will only get mad at me, so thats out. I'm stuck on MovieMaker 2, at least I can sit in our sofa and watch it together :wub:

 

I remember getting a pirated Photoshop back when it was version 4 ($400 legal copy @ Microcenter)...loved it so much I bought the full version off Adobe clearance bin for $125, and bought legal copies until version 7....pass on CS coz I still suck at Photoshop <_<

 

I had an opportunity with Crysis & Total War: Medivial 2, but I was too paranoid to for that big file to d/l on my HD. Good thing Target had a clearance sale on Crysis for $20-24-something and TWM2 for $14. :yes:

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MONOLITH   

You guys are all aware of what John has gone through to get this studio off the ground.

 

And next year, when all this effort comes to fruition, no one here could imagine it being 'justifiable' to steal a few copies of Ground Branch and screw him out of a few bucks, that he rightly deserves.

 

 

Just because some other company has been around longer and is bigger, doesn't make it any different.

 

 

 

Don't spend too much effort on this thread fella's. It won't be around long.

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:shakes head: Now I have to defend the reasons why I posted this.

 

I posted this due to past discussions here about piracy and gaming and why devs and publishers are moving away from developing/publishing for certain a certain platform. It was not about who pirated what or will pirate what. I posted this as in interesting take on someone who is affected by piracy, even if just movies. He gave all the reasons why people pirate and we all know we have heard said excuses and that is exactly that, an excuse.

 

I intend to support BFS by buying the games. Early on, I may have been a bit naive, but that didn't last (it was only one game that I borrowed to install and it didn't even run :wacko: ). If I really want to hurt a developer or publisher, I just do not buy the game or product. Sure, it may only be a few bills, but it is a few bills that they are not getting from me. If others did the same, it really would impact the publishers worse than piracy.

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WhiteKnight77 he owns a video store and I bet that he isn't squeaky clean either because I know for a fact that video stores are given preview copies of up coming releases. These releases are given out so the store owner can watch the movies and make a decision on the number of titles they wish to purchase and place on shelves for the consumer.

 

I bet this guy does like everyone in this industry allows his family and friends to watch these previews so his high moral ground is in my opinion on shaky grounds. Your not allowed to show/lend out these previews as there for your eyes only so again someone preaching about piracy is behind the scene breaking the law himself more than likely...........

 

Sure he's effected but it's the pot calling the kettle black to preach on a public forum about piracy issues and more than likely doing as I have said with previews. <_<

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I used to read reviews, specially on PC Gamer/MaximumPC to determine if the game is worth it.

Lately, if the sentence begins with "....you can ran all bells and whistles on Voodoo Blackbird..." I'm out!

 

Andy Manhood is the only one left in that staff that I really pay attention to.

 

I subscribed to these magazines coz they gave me access to the game demos and apps. I had dial-up for a very long time, hence, never bothered to learn torrents...plus never took the time to learn how it works.

 

Now, mostly I go by actual gamers reviews, screenshots and movies....I know one of these days I'll definitely get ArMa due to squad_e's movies, GRID due to Rocky & squad_e movies.

 

I'm like one of those ppl that made comment; I'm too deeply involved and passionate with my gaming, I'd dishonor them if I pirate them.

 

I'd be cheating myself if I ever pirate SG/GB on my rig that I spent many hours researching, learning to OC, bugging Aldous, }SkOrPn--7, Spectre65 3-4 in the morning, and spent freezing in my garage pulling and installing rivets just so I can be Ground Branch Ready.

Saint with his trip the PX to get my Eagle/Globe/Anchor.

 

Up to now, ppl at work ask me why I bring my laptop to work so I can watch my movies on lunchbreak vs watching them online...and I tell them, I can't stand pirated copies coz whoever this dude who's recording movies in movie theaters always bring his friend who has respiratory problems, always coughing over the camcorder they snuck underneath their jackets, and the third guy who keeps switching seats and blocks the view.

ARRRGGG can't stand those clowns.

 

I think its healthy were discussing this problem.

 

Another thing too, I've converted at least 2 console players to PC ever since I've joined the GB-bandwagon :thumbsup: I told them about John's humble beginning, and I tell them to support him and his staff when the game eventually comes out.

 

I had a point but I forgot...I'm rambling...back to my LOLCATS

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