RileyFletcher_01

Squad Setup

24 posts in this topic

Any plans for squad setup yet, or is that still in development? I don't know if everyone here agrees with me, but I thought the 4 man versus 400 men stuff was total BS. No commander in his right mind would send 4 guys to do an open battle against that big of force. That's Hollywood mixed with GRAW. You tell me about the guys in Vietnam who killed three thousand Japs, so you say it is possible. Sure as hell it is, but nobody is going to send them for that specific goal. Playing GR1, I've found I have the most fun the bigger my forces are. The six man stuff, well, that doesn't give you hardly any tactical freedom considering you either have two teams of three or three of two. Nine men, that's getting better. But then I found out how to set up missions to allow up to 27 players, long as you have 'least one human for each platoon of 9. That was really awesome. I don't know if GB is going to be the special forces small elite group type stuff, but I think allowing more than just a few guys would be neat. Try playing GR1 with 18 men -- it is fantastic if you have a teammate with a brain who can lead his platoon well and coordinate with you. Beautiful watching your huge squad roll over the opfor, seeing them file into the exfil zone, or scattering around an area to hold off an enemy attack. Also, will GB allow you to have AI teammates? I really hope so.

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Obviously I cannot answer on behalf of the devs, but if you read a bit about the actual Ground Branch unit, you will realize that it is indeed a kind of special forces unit. That means you probably wont have a large open battlefield with tons of bodies on both sides.

 

But I believe that the missions you will be playing in the game will be of the same kind special forces units would actually conduct. Covert missions are best handled with a small, highly trained team, not a large army.

 

I completely agree that arcade shooters (and so-called "tactical' shooters) where your 4-man team plow through hundreds of hostiles is ridiculous, but that doesnt mean 6-man teams dont serve a function.

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It depends on the size of the map. I would like to see about 12 playable/commandable units in the SP/co-op. Three fire teams of four, or two of six. For a GRAW size map (never played GR1) it would be nice. Too many team members can make the game too easy or over crowded if the maps are too small.

 

I would like at least two different fire teams though (like Raven Shield). And I agree; I'd rather take down 20 smart bad guys rather than 500 dumb ones.

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The 4 men against 400 is akin to the hero character against 100 or more in CoD that I found rather ridiculous (both are the same odds really). I don't want to play a game with that kind of mind numbing feature. I want something that will challenge me, without going over the top in how difficult it is, in order to complete the mission.

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I would like at least two different fire teams though (like Raven Shield). And I agree; I'd rather take down 20 smart bad guys rather than 500 dumb ones.

 

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Quote from John re realism.

 

"Then we ask, “Would Ground Branch be sent in here?” If yes then we proceed with how they would go in, what would happen, etc. We then look at real world abilities and say “Those are our game mechanics.”

 

So a set task will be possible with regard to Intel. so a small team would not come up against 100s .

 

But I would say that modders will have ideas on this, hoping not too over board though.

Riley if you read the Q and A section it gives a lot of info about the game.

http://groundbranch.com/questions-and-answers/

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You tell me about the guys in Vietnam who killed three thousand Japs

huh.png

I can tell you that the Americans fought the Vietcong in the Vietnam War, not the Japanese.

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Are you talking about the Vietnam war involving the US or during WWII with the Imperial Japanese Army invading Vietnam.

 

Please tell me its not the first choice...

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I thought that was a joke...

 

But anyway, since we're straightening these things out, the Viet Cong comprised of a fraction of the forces the US and ARVN fought against. The main foe was the NVA. Some say that the VC was an arm of the NVA rather than a true revolutionary force. This is only important relating to that war insofar as the VC were supposedly a spontaneous movement of the people, so thinking that they were the majority opposition force is mistakenly suggesting that the Vietnamese were all against US GIs. The Viet people generally would rather have US assistance more than US presence, but US presence was DEFINITELY preferred over communist rule.

 

 

 

But anyway, I would be okay with 4 on 400~ (figuratively) so long as it's not a spawn fest of enemies such as in COD, where enemies keep spawning until you move past a certain point. Spawning enemies I think is okay for last stand scenarios like in MOH when the rangers got holed up in a small house with taliban trying to overrun them. That was one of my favorite parts of the game. Obviously no one would be knowingly sent against those odds but it makes for great drama, and unfortunately, similar situations have happened before. I don't know if Ground Branch would run into as reckless and self sacrificing as the taliban however.

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Agreed, 3 teams is good, but at least two.

 

huh.png

I can tell you that the Americans fought the Vietcong in the Vietnam War, not the Japanese.

 

I'm sure he meant the Vietnamese pushing the Japanese out of Indochina.

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One thing that people dont realize is the reason why scenarios where a much smaller group of soldiers can inflict a large amount of damage to others is thanks to modern technology.

 

Hence why some scenarios where another group may be outnumbered 10-1 is quite possible. Yet the smaller group achieves victory by routing the enemy with overwhelming fire support. Of course its nothing like the movies or some games portray but still, you should get the idea.

 

Though with GB we can imagine its going to be more up close and personal type of combat, rather than "spot n shout" (calling in CAS or fire mission) on a location. So not the same type of thing that would be simulated in ArmA for example.

 

Really instead of being so hung up on what is / isnt realistic with numbers you need to remember that its still a game and there are some who do enjoy cranking the suck meter up to max just to see how well they and their team members will do against overwhelming odds. As long as there is a slider which adjusts the amount of hostile AI on a map, everyone wins.

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there are some who do enjoy cranking the suck meter up to max just to see how well their they and their team members will do against overwhelming odds
- that screams Alpha Squad right there...

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Do enjoy doing that in games with such sliders, just to see how far I can go. Used to do that a lot in Raven Shield when doing lone wolf mode. Helped me learn the map better and get more familiar with the weapons I used the most. Plus taught me to always be careful, due to the random spawn locations.

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so long as it's not a spawn fest of enemies such as in COD, where enemies keep spawning until you move past a certain point.

 

It won't be.

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We played with 8 in the server, GR1, on Sunday. No respawns, had 3 team deaths. Mission complete with under 30 enemy on the map. Took us a good 45 minutes.

 

Good missions do not need loads of enemy for SP or coop.

 

As for squad setup, BF3 has it nailed. Join a squad or create a new squad.

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- that screams Alpha Squad right there...

 

Yes they has some great missions for GR, I`m sure if they still have their modders we can see some great missions from them.

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I'm in the camp of 'the half dozen versus the hundreds' being okay, as long as it's within context. The Vietnam war example is a pretty good one. Look at the MACV-SOG recon teams in Laos and Cambodia. Six guys against several NVA battalions at a time.

 

As it played out for those guys, if they hadn't been spotted, they'd be up against rear echelon troops. But once detected, a company-sized force of more experienced soldiers was added to the opfor every ten minutes. Perhaps a game mechanic like this would add some value to mission design.

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huh.png

I can tell you that the Americans fought the Vietcong in the Vietnam War, not the Japanese.

 

hehe..

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I think the Vietnam example refers to the small LRRP teams that fought the nva / vc with their "own game" / guerrilla style. These LRRP teams were inserted into the area of operations days before, moved at night into position. Waited days before encountering enemies and called in artillery or airstrikes. That way small teams were able to eliminate big forces, i dont think these teams really had big firefights on their own against 400 enemies at the same time. Perhaps when compromised but never intended, that whould have been really suicidal, the nva / vc were no jokes... ;)

 

The "real" firefights on the ground were propably against much smaller forces, ambush style hit and run (like the VC). Altough very 'great' stories about them, i don't think these missions are really enjoyable in a game. Lots and lots and lots of waiting for very short but intense action.

 

As for the game, the player(s) can only fight 400 enemies in a similar way (calling in artiellry or airstrikes). Fighting them on the ground at the same time should be undoable or the enemies are really "incapable".

However stealthy infiltrating an area with that ammount of enemies doing very focused missions (obtaining info, killing HVT, destroying specific materials etc) without the intent to kill all 400 enemies are in my opinion the type of missions the SAD should be doing. If the player(s) mess up they get their big firefight with 400 enemies at the same time anyway. smile.png

 

The squad setup itself is something i think is very flexible, propably the SAD organises the team(s) and men in such a way that it fits the mission best. Propably not really fireteams but teams of experts and specialist put together to perform their tasks the best. Really depends on the mission at hand.

Edited by IsItSickoRwHaT

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