Verbal K

Modelling Questions/Advice

20 posts in this topic

Hi,

So I’ve modelled previously in Max and tried on a few occasion to try and get into Maya but struggled, but yesterday it came together and I made a start on a building, I’m a bit woolly at how to make it, I’ve checked out:

 

http://www.blackfoot...?showtopic=6411

 

and the building I am making is likely to be smaller than that but I don’t seem many/any obvious opportunity to make it modular (other than maybe some pillars) and it’s unlikely any of the other buildings in the map will have similar aspects (other than window/door frames) though this building will be repeated several times. So I started with this:

 

img01.jpg

 

But didn’t think it was right connecting the two edges just on one face of the geometry so changed it to use complete loops (which does kinda help me elsewhere anyway) and ended up with this:

 

img02.jpg

 

Where I only used full loops around the entire piece of geometry. All quads/tris I then extruded the pieces I wanted to end up with:

 

img03.jpg

img04.jpg

 

I then extruded some more, welded some of the pieces I had extruded horizontally and deleted the faces at these joins as they will never be seen, imported it into UDK and ended up with:

 

img05.jpg

 

So I’m just wondering if I am making any major errors at the moment or does anything stand out that I should be doing differently?

Thanks in advance!

Edited by Verbal K

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Break up your building into smaller more detailed chunks.

 

That way you will be able to re-use various chunks to make other sections of a level in a completely different way smile.png

 

So for example - A Wall with a window is one piece. A Wall with a door frame is another piece. the roof is another piece or Series of pieces.

 

Plus this will save you allot of headaches when making the collision meshes. smile.png

 

Here is an Example -

 

rkyRvmN.jpg

Edited by HeadClot

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Break up your building into smaller more detailed chunks.

 

That way you will be able to re-use various chunks to make other sections of a level in a completely different way smile.png

 

So for example - A Wall with a window is one piece. A Wall with a door frame is another piece. the roof is another piece or Series of pieces.

 

Plus this will save you allot of headaches when making the collision meshes. smile.png

 

Here is an Example -

 

rkyRvmN.jpg

 

This! modularity is key.

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@Verbal K - Are you doing alright with Maya?

 

If needs be I can give you a link to some very good tutorials :)

 

Just post back here and let me know alright.

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Hi, yeah I'm getting to grips with Maya after some false starts, I think it helps that I know the names of things I want to do (because of 3DS Max) & google :P so yeah thanks Headclot.

 

I've checked out the tutorials etc to make sure there wasn't anything there already & as I said I read the bit about modularity so understand the principle.

 

My main question is the building isn't particularly symetrical so where to place cuts for modularity aren't jumping out at me, also its quite small, above is half the building the other half is a similar size but with a second story

 

so I will make both floors of the 2nd section independant so in total it would be three parts, I know this isn't modular but still should help regarding if the object is hidden from the player or only the 2nd floor is viewable etc.

 

As John said in the post I quoted: "I think you are ok doing the basic walls/floors/roof as one object but definitely make the overhand and objects separate." and this room is smaller than that one by the look of it (512UU wide),

 

however if anyone can see some glaring opportunities to make the above modular let me know as I said the parts of this building other than the doorways/windows are unlikely to be used elsewhere.

 

My main question was whether the full loops, extruding, welding & removing hidden faces is the right way to go about it or not.

 

Thanks for the responses so far :)

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Guys we have a lot of stuff in the modding section, take a look.

http://www.blackfoot...?showtopic=6280

 

Some guys here have made stuff already in the above link you will find stuff being worked on past and present.

 

Ok, I will post the resource that I have here and in the Modding section. :)

 

Link to

 

Hi, yeah I'm getting to grips with Maya after some false starts, I think it helps that I know the names of things I want to do (because of 3DS Max) & google tongue.png so yeah thanks Headclot.

 

I've checked out the tutorials etc to make sure there wasn't anything there already & as I said I read the bit about modularity so understand the principle.

 

My main question is the building isn't particularly symetrical so where to place cuts for modularity aren't jumping out at me, also its quite small, above is half the building the other half is a similar size but with a second story

 

so I will make both floors of the 2nd section independant so in total it would be three parts, I know this isn't modular but still should help regarding if the object is hidden from the player or only the 2nd floor is viewable etc.

 

As John said in the post I quoted: "I think you are ok doing the basic walls/floors/roof as one object but definitely make the overhand and objects separate." and this room is smaller than that one by the look of it (512UU wide),

 

however if anyone can see some glaring opportunities to make the above modular let me know as I said the parts of this building other than the doorways/windows are unlikely to be used elsewhere.

 

My main question was whether the full loops, extruding, welding & removing hidden faces is the right way to go about it or not.

 

Thanks for the responses so far smile.png

 

I can possibly see the opportunity to make something like this modular and have a more visual pop. So to speak.

 

Post references photos/Drawings if you have any. I will help you with the modularity.

 

Your main question - That is one way to go about it. Not sure why you are getting all of those triangles. In the UDK how many tris does it say that the object has? Compare that to your Maya scene and Tell us in the thread.

 

If there are any Maya users here feel free to correct me. I know that Maya has a wonky workflow with UDK. At least what I think is Wonky.

 

I need to grab some rest. So expect me to reply in a few hours. :)

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Tris Maya - 482, UDK 378 (verts are 242 Maya, 587 UDK o.O)

 

The ref images are from the same building I had made in RO2 SDK but just out of brushes, obviously its better to be an SM so I thought I would make it in Maya, I imported the UDK model to get dimensions etc (pretty sure Ro2 is 1:1 too)

 

front.jpg

 

back.jpg

 

side_left.jpg

 

side_right.jpg

 

INTERNAL:

 

room01_01.jpg

 

room01_02.jpg

 

room02_01.jpg

 

room02_02.jpg

 

room03_01.jpg

 

room03_02.jpg

 

room04_02.jpg

 

room04_01.jpg

 

It looks better lit :P

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I find using "booleans" to be best way as it's sorta like BSP workflow. I start with general building shape, in your case cube for garage and cube for apartment. Select both then mesh->boolean->union and you get model with no hidden faces/verts. Make a cube for doorway, place it where you want, select the building mesh first then doorway mesh, boolean->difference and you got your cut for doorway(again with no hidden faces/verts). Do the same for the rest of openings, then cut the rooms out the same way. Sometimes it does weird stuff but for the most part I find it the fastest and easiest way.

As for modular, yea don't break up the building shell, it's not worth it if you not going to reuse parts of it.

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Booleans are evil though and generally means plenty of manual cleanups afterwards.

Making a doorway in a wall only takes 3 cuts, removal of 2 faces and rebuilding 3 new faces.

 

Same goes for turning a cube into a hollow room, just select the floor polygon, hit "insert" and select your wall thickness and then extrude the interior face to create the "room"

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Maybe in Max, I don't have to do any cleanups in Maya. Maybe you can elaborate more on what you mean by cleanups.

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Been a while since I worked with it now but booleans in 3dsm tended to be very messy, especially if you cut through already established edges. What used to happen was lots and lots of residue verts that needed to be welded away combined with messy edgeflow that you had to fix up by hand.

I'd have to start up the old work computer if I was to give an example.

 

Edit: here's a crude example but I'm sure you will see what I mean with cleanup needed.

As simple a boolean as you could do, cutting a doorway.

boolean-before_zpsf4938d6b.jpg

 

And the result with messed up vers and funky edgeflow.

boolean-after_zpsfe53e365.jpg

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Just tried it myself, yes there's residue verts/edges when cutting through established edge but I haven't really run into that when shelling out buildings cause only border edges are established, I create any needed edges after.

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Hi,

So I’ve modelled previously in Max and tried on a few occasion to try and get into Maya but struggled, but yesterday it came together and I made a start on a building, I’m a bit woolly at how to make it, I’ve checked out:

 

Oddly enough, I found the UI for Max to be easier to navigate than Maya or Blender. I don't know why that is, especially considering that Max has a more tedious and less functional layout the others, or so I'm told.

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yes I had heard booleans are evil and so stayed clear ever since.

 

Booleans are the devil! Stay away from them Unless you do cad work...

 

Oddly enough, I found the UI for Max to be easier to navigate than Maya or Blender. I don't know why that is, especially considering that Max has a more tedious and less functional layout the others, or so I'm told.

 

Same here. I am a max user as well!

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Same here, and to my shock I even remembered how to boolean even through it's been ages since I used max :lol:

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http://s957.photobuc..._k/library/MAYA

 

Link to the 'finished' model, not unwrapped or textured yet.

 

The method I used has left quite a lot of additional, unrequired edges up some of the walls is just removing them an option or bad practise?

 

I intend to redo it anyway to try and get some more expereince and refine the process the entire thing is just under 3k tri's including the collision meshes which

 

sounds a bit high to me for a building that seems quite straightforward.

 

Any feedback welcome, thanks.

Edited by Verbal K

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You have a lot of useless edge loop in there. Here a quick paint over to give you an idea of how it should be looking more or less.

 

my paint over was quickly made so it can be perfected.

 

ve1k.jpg

Edited by underfox

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Thanks for the feedback underfox, I've started to revisit it and have only done the 2 ground floor 'rooms' atm but even though I had started them before seeing your image they appear (though no doubt still not perfect) a lot closer to your suggestions, the poly count has also dropped @ 50% for each room.

 

You can clearly see the difference & reduction in edges between the 2 downstairs and 'old' upstairs.

 

img01-1.jpg

 

img02-1.jpg

Edited by Verbal K

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