RavenTheBird

RE: Recoil

Recommended Posts

Disclaimer: I have no experience in any type of fire arms, so correct me if i made a mistake.

 

I was looking at some ground branch videos, and i noticed that when the player shoots. The player has almost no recoil and muzzle climb. Isn't the player suppose to have recoil and muzzle climb like in Arma 3? And if so, will it be so that the player has to counter it in order to shoot?

 

This isn't really related to this issue at all, but have devolpers considered a manual reload? I mean like in Reciever:

Edited by RavenTheBird

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The M-16/M-4 does not have a lot of recoil (previous experience with the M-16), especially when compared to other rifles I have shot (.30-30, 12 gauge, .22LR, which has very little, to name a few). Not seeing a bunch or having it over exaggerated in game would be more realistic. Of course, with other weapons (say a M-117 .50 sniper rifle) there should be more recoil depending on which weapon is being used. The thing is, no game will ever be able to accurately model something like that. It can get close, but unless you actually have a weapon in your hands and shouldered in a firing position and firing something out of it, games will ever be able to model it properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This.

 

I can see a mod coming out after the release where a fraction of a second where the player's vision may become blurry.

The muzzle rise I've experienced on comes on the 2nd and 3rd follow up shoot on my 5.56

 

Unless there's a gaming mice with FFB, it's kinda pointless. I've tried ArMa3 and I see on a MILSIM the point of muzzle rise.

 

On BF3 it's pointless at best since its a run n gun game IMHO.

 

BF PR has a nice blur effect. Tiny but effective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly what part of this did you not understand?

Don't have the answer to your questions and not sure about the CURRENT state of development but here's some relatively ancient discussions found with the SEARCH function:

 

On Recoil: #1 #2 #3 #4

 

On Reloading

 

On the game Receiver

It's even in caps and bold for crying out loud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly what part of this did you not understand?

 

It's even in caps and bold for crying out loud.

OK, let's give him a small break. He isn't as bad as that one guy that breezed in here with all sorts of thoughts were it got bad enough where JWP quoted me about it. I would almost say that he isn't from the US and isn't old enough to consider joining the military even. I may be wrong though. :shrug:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DetCord   

OK, let's give him a small break. He isn't as bad as that one guy that breezed in here with all sorts of thoughts were it got bad enough where JWP quoted me about it. I would almost say that he isn't from the US and isn't old enough to consider joining the military even. I may be wrong though. :shrug:

 

Agreed. Seemed a little harsh, perhaps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't threaten with blunt force trauma, I didn't even call him depreciating names. How big a break does he need? Summer Vacation?

Sometimes you just have to proverbially put the smack down.

 

And yes, Colin, I remember the previous kick starter. I bit my tongue so hard for so long that it's still sore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DetCord   

I didn't threaten with blunt force trauma, I didn't even call him depreciating names. How big a break does he need? Summer Vacation?

Sometimes you just have to proverbially put the smack down.

 

And yes, Colin, I remember the previous kick starter. I bit my tongue so hard for so long that it's still sore.

 

Yes, this isn't entirely applicable however, I had to find a way to employ it.

 

tumblr_m9237sdvsV1rxlmf0o1_500.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kris   

Yes, search is very much your friend and should always be your starting point. If you followed the links above (or use search to find them yourself :P ) you will come across a lot of discussions regarding recoil, reloading and other mechanics.

 

Only a basic system is implemented at the moment, but it will be expanded soon enough. After that, it is just a matter of testing and tweaking untl we're satisified with the results, gameplay wise.

 

Also, g'day and welcome :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DetCord   

Like this one:

j2gj.jpg

Yes, search is very much your friend and should always be your starting point. If you followed the links above (or use search to find them yourself tongue.png ) you will come across a lot of discussions regarding recoil, reloading and other mechanics.

 

Only a basic system is implemented at the moment, but it will be expanded soon enough. After that, it is just a matter of testing and tweaking untl we're satisified with the results, gameplay wise.

 

Also, g'day and welcome smile.png

 

patrick-bateman-music.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jonathan   

OK, let's give him a small break. He isn't as bad as that one guy that breezed in here with all sorts of thoughts were it got bad enough where JWP quoted me about it.

 

I know exactly who you're talking about... ME! seriously, I'm not stupid & I remember all the questions and ideas I had when I first started being active here & you know what, I am sorry for that. I do admit I got a little bit overly excited & was eager to get as much info as I could.

Edited by Jonathan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think i have any more questions, thank you for your assistance.

Stick around and do not be afraid to read through the forums. Many of the questions you have most likely have already been answered due to the time the forums have been around and the game in development (the downside to long developmental times).

I know exactly who you're talking about... ME! seriously, I'm not stupid & I remember all the questions and ideas I had when I first started being active here & you know what, I am sorry for that. I do admit I got a little bit overly excited & was eager to get as much info as I could.

No, it wasn't you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flip it to full automatic and you get RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Recoil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GnaM   

The M-16/M-4 does not have a lot of recoil (previous experience with the M-16), especially when compared to other rifles I have shot (.30-30, 12 gauge, .22LR, which has very little, to name a few). Not seeing a bunch or having it over exaggerated in game would be more realistic. Of course, with other weapons (say a M-117 .50 sniper rifle) there should be more recoil depending on which weapon is being used. The thing is, no game will ever be able to accurately model something like that. It can get close, but unless you actually have a weapon in your hands and shouldered in a firing position and firing something out of it, games will ever be able to model it properly.

 

Well the key point of recoil in a game isn't just to create a physical sensation of firing the gun, but to punish bullet spam and limit the practical rate of fire to what is realistically appropriate for a given weapon. Thus, it doesn't matter if it makes the player physically feel like something is pounding his shoulder, as long as he can't mag dump with the same accuracy as short bursts or semi-auto fire.

 

The important qualifier here is that recoil values need to be relative to the recoil differences in real life. M4/M16 have low recoil compared to an AK or M14, yet high recoil compared to an MP5A5. You cannot simulate every ergonomic aspect of recoil, but at least if rapid fire is punished/limited the appropriate amount, then recoil has had proper, successful tactical relevance on the game.

 

The worst ######ing thing in tactical shooters is seeing relative recoil relationships get borked. Frequently 7.62x51, 7.62x54, .30-06, or even 7.62x39mm rifles will be depicted with almost no recoil increase compared to smaller caliber rifles, because the devs are afraid the resources devoted to making that weapon model will be wasted if n00bs aren't good enough to use the gun. Conversely, recoil for LMG's and SMG's is often exageratted because devs can't figure out how else to "balance" these guns.

 

While presumably Blackfoot understands these potential problems and will avoid them for the most part, it can't be stressed enough that the key to getting recoil right is attention to relative differences. Often experienced shooters will take the attitude that "I have no trouble shooting .308, therefore there's no point in having much recoil on those guns", a mentality which applied to games, destroys relative relationships, makes 5.56 and 7.62 equally controllable, and ruins any tactical difference between weapons of varying calibers.

Edited by GnaM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the key point of recoil in a game isn't just to create a physical sensation of firing the gun, but to punish bullet spam and limit the practical rate of fire to what is realistically appropriate for a given weapon. Thus, it doesn't matter if it makes the player physically feel like something is pounding his shoulder, as long as he can't mag dump with the same accuracy as short bursts or semi-auto fire.

 

The important qualifier here is that recoil values need to be relative to the recoil differences in real life. M4/M16 have low recoil compared to an AK or M14, yet high recoil compared to an MP5A5. You cannot simulate every ergonomic aspect of recoil, but at least if rapid fire is punished/limited the appropriate amount, then recoil has had proper, successful tactical relevance on the game.

 

The worst ######ing thing in tactical shooters is seeing relative recoil relationships get borked. Frequently 7.62x51, 7.62x54, .30-06, or even 7.62x39mm rifles will be depicted with almost no recoil increase compared to smaller caliber rifles, because the devs are afraid the resources devoted to making that weapon model will be wasted if n00bs aren't good enough to use the gun. Conversely, recoil for LMG's and SMG's is often exageratted because devs can't figure out how else to "balance" these guns.

 

While presumably Blackfoot understands these potential problems and will avoid them for the most part, it can't be stressed enough that the key to getting recoil right is attention to relative differences. Often experienced shooters will take the attitude that "I have no trouble shooting .308, therefore there's no point in having much recoil on those guns", a mentality which applied to games, destroys relative relationships, makes 5.56 and 7.62 equally controllable, and ruins any tactical difference between weapons of varying calibers.

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be recoil, just not so it is over exaggerated as some games would have you believe. On single shot, an M-16 should drop right back to where it was after a bit of recoil. On full auto, I expect muzzle rise due to said recoil and rounds to impact off target and once firing stop, to not be on the original aim point. This goes for all weapon types that can fire in auto mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now