HeadClot

Will ground branch ship with its own mod toolset?

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Hey this is me being curious -

 

Will ground branch ship with its own mod toolset? or will we have to use the 19 Dollars a month Subscription based unreal engine?

 

Thank you for your time,

 

Ben

Edited by HeadClot

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I think Subscription based is the only way but not 100% sure, but I am sure I read that John will ship all the materials with the game, sounds, objects etc.

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The way UE4 works and where it is heading suggests that BFS (or even Epic) cant answer your question yet. After reading that UT4 will be a free game and will be funded with the Mod market, I would imagine that they will do the same with other of their engine's games.

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After reading that UT4 will be a free game and will be funded with the Mod market, I would imagine that they will do the same with other of their engine's games.

 

I'm not sure about that. UT4 may be a special case. They sure will make use of the marketplace with any other game they will make, but I doubt they will give them all away for free. The marketplace will, however, be definitely an integral part of Epic's business model, though it will not be shoved down anyones throat, I think.

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I'm not sure about that. UT4 may be a special case.

 

I agree with this and just cause the game is 'free' doesn't mean you won't have to pay the $19 for the 'privelage' of creating maps, particularly if you can monetize (sp?!) it.

Edited by Verbal K

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If they make a UT worthy of UT99, they gonna make hella dolla on the mod community. As long we get a cool PC game, I'm fine (yet).

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UT (UE4) the game will be free. To mod it you will need to be on the subscription to get the tools. Content will be available on the marketplace(both paid and free) and that is how Epic is going to make their money on UT. Think of it more as a loss leader for engine subscriptions and marketplace royalties.

 

For Ground Branch we are not exactly sure just yet. As of now, the UE4 subscription setup will allow you to mod GB. We are not allowed to provide an editor directly under that license. However, Epic does provide the opportunity to come up with a custom license with them for UE4. So we will look into that at some point, however, cost would be a big factor in that decision.

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Hey this is me being curious -

 

Will ground branch ship with its own mod toolset? or will we have to use the 19 Dollars a month Subscription based unreal engine?

 

Thank you for your time,

 

Ben

 

No idea as to the modding tool-set as of yet.

 

However, we're currently working on three Special Editions. The SE's, depending upon which version and options you choose, will ship with a Sig Sauer M11, a Benelli M4 or a H&K 417. If you shoot me your Credit Card info now, I'll be sure to have those out to you on day one. FIREdevil.gif

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why is epic trying to kill modding?

 

I had the same thought. It's death to modding as we know it and to the greatness that it had. The greatness, is what they want to monetize on, since it's so... great. This idea is as brilliant as it is sinister. Not sure if to hate or to like.

 

It's certainly a double edged sword, and a very sharp one on both sides.

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It makes sense if you want income and modding prolongs a game or can do, this is not good for income either.

One big problem I see is creative players who take up modding will be put off and not get into the game arena period. This is very sad.

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I had the same thought. It's death to modding as we know it and to the greatness that it had. The greatness, is what they want to monetize on, since it's so... great. This idea is as brilliant as it is sinister. Not sure if to hate or to like.

 

It's certainly a double edged sword, and a very sharp one on both sides.

 

It's a bit like bottling water.

 

No one had any idea such a ludicrous venture would be so profitable 15 years ago. Look at it now. Same goes for modding I suppose.

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What if Epic allows modders to sell their mods? What many people do not realize is that there is a big business in for profit mods, at least in the Flight Simulator community and before MS pretty much killed FS, or at least tried to monetize it for themselves (and failed horribly at it), they released SDKs so that modders could mod FS and even sell said mods. Payware has been around for more than 10 years already (I have mentioned FS payware mods in the past on this forum).

 

Think about it, you spend many hours developing a mod as well as the license to use UE4, why not get paid for it? Would other game communities support payware mods outside of FS? Only time will tell if gamers embrace it, especially if it means quality mods and ease of integration to games.

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WhiteKnight77 may be correct that Epic allows to modders to sell their mods while Epic get a small percentage of the profits for mods that were bought by players, if I am not mistaken.

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What if Epic allows modders to sell their mods? What many people do not realize is that there is a big business in for profit mods, at least in the Flight Simulator community and before MS pretty much killed FS, or at least tried to monetize it for themselves (and failed horribly at it), they released SDKs so that modders could mod FS and even sell said mods. Payware has been around for more than 10 years already (I have mentioned FS payware mods in the past on this forum).

 

Think about it, you spend many hours developing a mod as well as the license to use UE4, why not get paid for it? Would other game communities support payware mods outside of FS? Only time will tell if gamers embrace it, especially if it means quality mods and ease of integration to games.

 

Difference is, the FS SDK's are still free for anyone to toy around with.

 

This move by Epic to monetize modding just stifles creativity, IMHO. There's no doubt that a lot of games wouldn't have gotten made if this policy had been implemented years ago. A lot of indie developers and games like Red Orchestra 41-45, Deus Ex (2000), Tripwire etc most likely wouldn't exist if Epic had started this policy when those kids had a growing interest in game development, went online, and downloaded UDK. Now they're charging for access to it.

 

I'm not continuing work on my map due to this policy shift. At the end of the day though, it's their software and their business model. They're free to do whatever they want.

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I agree that this will likely hurt modding. $19 is okay, but if people need to upgrade frequently to keep their mods comparable then a lot of kids won't get into it (or afford it). Selling mods isn't something very appealing either. What makes mods good is that they are free. It is one of the things which separates PC gaming from console gaming to. If we have to pay for a mod, then it is similar to micro-transactions on consoles. And most mods are not worth paying for.

 

Aside from the source code, it is even a step back for start up indie dev teams. CE3 and UDK were free to try and get updates previously.

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I think the deal with the $19 is that it is the same fee for a team making a total conversion mod as for an individual making a 20-code-line-long mutator.

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I agree that this will likely hurt modding. $19 is okay, but if people need to upgrade frequently to keep their mods comparable then a lot of kids won't get into it (or afford it). Selling mods isn't something very appealing either. What makes mods good is that they are free. It is one of the things which separates PC gaming from console gaming to. If we have to pay for a mod, then it is similar to micro-transactions on consoles. And most mods are not worth paying for.

 

Aside from the source code, it is even a step back for start up indie dev teams. CE3 and UDK were free to try and get updates previously.

 

Payware mods for FS is a multimillion dollar business, world wide.

 

And yeah Det, the SDKs were free. Could MS have charged for them? Maybe, but they didn't. With Epic on the other hand, one is getting the exact same software that "mainstream" developers are getting and could end up creating their own game instead of a mod if they so want.

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WhiteKnight77 may be correct that Epic allows to modders to sell their mods while Epic get a small percentage of the profits for mods that were bought by players, if I am not mistaken.

 

This is exactly what they are doing. The new UT will be free, but mods will be able to be sold on their Marketplace if the modder chooses. Epic of course gets a cut of this. Also, we could put a GB "module" or SDK for sale on the marketplace as well that would allow people to make mods for GB. We of course won't sell the ability to mod GB though..... its just an example.

 

The flip side of all this is people can still make mods and release them for free if they chose, but they also have the ability to sell them as well. Before, the licensing setup between Epic and licensees made this a difficult avenue to pursue for all parties involved.

 

This is the approach that Unity took with their Unity Store and it has worked well for them. I haven't decided how I feel about it all from a consumer perspective, but I assure you from a developer perspective a full source license to UE4 for $19 a month and all the possibilities it brings is beyond incredible.

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Payware mods for FS is a multimillion dollar business, world wide.

 

A lot of the payware "mods" are essentially expansion packs. Full development teams, proper quality and even more detail than what shipped with the game. That is a bit different than charging for some maps or new weapons in a game like Red Orchestra or Ghost Recon, IMO.

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A lot of the payware "mods" are essentially expansion packs. Full development teams, proper quality and even more detail than what shipped with the game. That is a bit different than charging for some maps or new weapons in a game like Red Orchestra or Ghost Recon, IMO.

 

That is where FS stands out, not necessarily good or bad, but stands out. The question is, why should modders for other games not be able to take advantage of it? There is only one way to find out. Yes, We are a long way from GR as far as modding goes nowadays, but there is no reason why it cannot be profitable for a new breed of modders who want to sell them if they so choose.

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That is where FS stands out, not necessarily good or bad, but stands out. The question is, why should modders for other games not be able to take advantage of it? There is only one way to find out. Yes, We are a long way from GR as far as modding goes nowadays, but there is no reason why it cannot be profitable for a new breed of modders who want to sell them if they so choose.

 

That's a little different though, right? I mean the addons for FSX don't require third-party licenses. PMDG, Aerosoft, Orbx and others aren't required to pay licensing fees. They're free to develop addons as they see fit with the SDK MS provided. The same can't be said for the likes of unofficial mods. If I were to develop a map pack for say, RO2, and then attempted to profit from said map pack I'd likey be served a cease and desist order rather quickly, as I don't have a license from the games developer to produce official content for it.

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I think the deal with the $19 is that it is the same fee for a team making a total conversion mod as for an individual making a 20-code-line-long mutator.

 

And it's the same fee for a multi million money heavy AAA studio/publisher.

 

You can see it's not a very fair model. As John says, it's ideal for the indie devs, which is the middle ground where this business model is most efficient, but it's unfair toward the modders and way to good for the publishers (undeserved). That is why I hoped they'd make things a bit easier for modders (like a shared license for multiple users, or such), but it is not withing Epic's interest.

 

So I don't know what to think about it, I'm only happy that it benefits BFS, only thing is that BFS always emphasized how the modding scene is important and will be supported and now Epic has full control over it. Maybe there will be legit ways to circumvent it somehow? Like through BFS sponsorship, where BFS gifts a license or so, for a month, or three, but that's up for the future where BFS is no longer struggling to get their game out.

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it seems like they're emphasizing the indie scene because that's the most popular and greatest source of revenue, but totally screwing the upstarts and casual modders because they don't generate revenue anyway. that's what it feels like to me.

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