[Jsonedecker]

I'm curious to see what people think..... Is the use of Steam considered "DRM"?

So can a game that uses Steamworks for Multiplayer Connectivity and is sold on Steam be called "DRM Free"?

[ratoa]

Even though I have an Steam account and have a few games I actually dislike Steam and I try to avoid them like the plague

and yes I do believe Steamworks is some sort of DRM

[Witzbold]

Id say its DRM but even so its at least the most unobtrusive form out there. Now what bothers me is when there is another layer upon steam. Such as for example what UBI does with their own software at times.

[N'kEnNy]

No. Or rather it depends on the game in question. Plenty of steam games can be run without steam active.  In the case of titles that use Steamworks, like CallofDuty or Civilization5,  the question becomes a little more muddled.  It is my opinion as a user that the application of steamworks largely outweigh any penalties.

I can run Arma2 for instance without steam. Steam as an entity won't be going away any time soon however.

-k

[ratoa]

Kenny that not entirely true

I downloaded all my STEAM games to my gaming laptop in my last Army tour to the middle east, I for one liked the idea of no
taking the CD/DVD with me but 4 or 5 months down the road my OFFLINE mode wont allow me to play my games and as a matter
of fact I got a message saying that if I wanted to play I need to log to the internet to keep playing...In the end I had over 30GB of games
that I cant even open. For home users STEAM is convenient but for people on the go with out any internet not so.

[Cpl Ledanek]

N, on 01 April 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

I can run Arma2 for instance without steam. Steam as an entity won't be going away any time soon however.

-k

I agree partially running offline... that is if:
--- you switch to offline before you lost Internet, meaning you did this intentionally.

it's not intrusive to the entire PC usage, it is DRM in any sense bcoz it's an entity that "regulates" the beginning of playing.

If you have a toy, you picked from floor, and began playing, that is any sense, regulated free=DRM free


If you have a toy, you picked from floor, ASKED, mommy can I play, IS regulated=DRM

[Bota:16]

I would say Steamworks is DRM, but better this than what the other developers and publishers have been coming up with lately.  Personally I think Steamworks would be a good fit for a "indie" game.  No point in trying to reinvent the wheel for MP games, especially if you plan to distribute the game via Steam.  Does VAC support come with Steamworks integration or is it a separate "fee"?

[Jsonedecker]

VAC does come with Steamworks, yes. I was really wondering because if someone says "our games are DRM Free" does that include no Steam Integration? Because every game sold on Steam require you to have a Steam client installed regardless if it is using Steamworks for matchmaking or VAC. So technically I guess it isn't possible to sell your game on Steam and be truly DRM free.

[Bota:16]

DRM is a very broad subject.  Honestly I don't think there is such a thing as DRM "free".  A one time use CD-Key is still considered DRM.  Without something you might as well upload a .torrent file to Pirate Bay yourself and save the pirates some time.

[Jsonedecker]

Bota:16, on 01 April 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

DRM is a very broad subject.  Honestly I don't think there is such a thing as DRM "free".  A one time use CD-Key is still considered DRM.  Without something you might as well upload a .torrent file to Pirate Bay yourself and save the pirates some time.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. If I were to advertise a game as "DRM Free" what exactly does that mean these days?

[Witzbold]

I suppose that if its on steam for example you can say its DRM free cept for all the things attached to being within the steam platform itself. Would be the most simple answer.

Its like how Ubi had announced that RUSE would be DRM free when it was sold on the steam platform. This was the announcement.

Quote

"When R.U.S.E. is released in September, it will benefit from Valve’s Steamworks API to offer the best community experience to players. Consequently, a Steam account and Internet connection will be required to activate the game, as per Steam policy. For this reason, R.U.S.E. will not use the Ubisoft protection. Single player can be played offline."

[krise madsen]

Jsonedecker, on 01 April 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

I'm curious to see what people think..... Is the use of Steam considered "DRM"?

Yes.

Jsonedecker, on 01 April 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

So can a game that uses Steamworks for Multiplayer Connectivity and is sold on Steam be called "DRM Free"?

No.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Steam, though there are obviously plenty of far, far worse systems out there. What Steam did right was to sweeten the deal with plenty of services and (apart from getting swamped every time a major release is out) spend resources to make it run reliably and efficiently.

[Bota:16]

Is GB still being planned to be released as a PvP MP game only, at least initially?

[Nouty]

Is GB still being planned to be released? Just kidding. Anyway I guess you can't really call your game DRM free if you release it through steam, not if you get picky about what DRM is anyway. A lot of people seem to be doing it just fine with their games so I guess people aren't so picky about it.

[Fixxxer]

Witzbold, on 01 April 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

Id say its DRM but even so its at least the most unobtrusive form out there

This.

However, the other day when my ISP decided to just come by my house and sever all of my cable connections due to "noise" (instead of just calling and then coming out to fix the problem....completely different subject) I found out the hard way just how difficult or impossible "offline mode" truly is.

Apparently you have to have Steam connected to the internet and go into offline mode while connected before Steam will ever allow you to play games in offline mode. Steam would not connect in offline mode since I had not "validated" it.

So I agree with Witz, but I would have agreed more if I had known about the above before my connection was severed without notice, rendering all games unplayable.

[N'kEnNy]

Again.  I can play ARMA2 without the steam interface. (no DRM)  I suspect the same applies to many of the retro-games I own through steam. Including ghost recon and etc.  Sure, the internet is a notable requirement, but ###### I can get what amounts to broadband connection via my cellphone...

[Witzbold]

Another good bit about steam is the tech support that comes with using the platform beats trying to dick around with the publishers themselves.

Since I must say that steams tech support for all of the problems Ive had in the past were dealt with quickly and from that first initial call to them.

[ratoa]

Again that applies to you Kenny or the normal user at their homes but in Iraq in the middle of no where I din't have the luxury of a cell phone less internet.

Don't get me wrong Steam is convenient to this new generation of gamers that they don't like to go to the store grab a physical copy of their games and the sales are great I own several titles myself but only if I cant get a physical copy of say games I don't like to give control over what I have to another party, call me old of school if you like but I take care of my stuff, hells I still have game boxes with manual and disc
from games I bought over 15 years ago because I'm some sort of collector

An eye opener to me about digital distribution was when Microsoft pulled the plug with the DLC
on the original XBOX did I got my money back? NO and I still play that big ugly black box from time to time,

Now let's get back on topic YES STEAM IS DRM just like XBOX live

Edited by ratoa, 01 April 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[WhiteKnight77]

I would consider Steam to be DRM and has been said already, the least intrusive of all of them out there. Unlike other DRM that requires a constant connection even for the SP portion of a game, I can play without an internet connection. I like the fact that Steam allows me to install games on multiple computers and play on them no matter where I am at. I typically set Steam to offline mode when I get to the hotel I am staying at before I carry the laptop to the job site and if I get a chance to play anything while there.

I think if you just tell people that it will be available through Steam, most will accept it's use for GB.

[Jsonedecker]

Bota:16, on 01 April 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Is GB still being planned to be released as a PvP MP game only, at least initially?

Yes. The initial release will be a PvP & TvT MP game. Co-op then SP campaigns will follow after that. Going to do it in stages.

Nouty, on 01 April 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

Is GB still being planned to be released? Just kidding.

Touche' !

Keep your eyes peeled..... things are a happening!

N, on 01 April 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

Again.  I can play ARMA2 without the steam interface. (no DRM)  I suspect the same applies to many of the retro-games I own through steam. Including ghost recon and etc.  

Interesting, didn't realize you could play games bought through steam without actually having it running. Very interesting.