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LCD Monitor

Started by Cutter, Aug 04 2007 04:16 PM

#1 Cutter

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 04:16 PM

I am looking to get a new monitor. I will be making the transition from CRT (currently have a NEC FE991SB) to an LCD. I have about $250.00 to spend. It has been a little over a year since I have kept myself in the loop over the computer componet world.  Hoping to get a decent monitor for gaming, atleast 17" in size. Can I get a decent one for $250.00 ??

Thank in advance.

#2 MONOLITH

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 04:32 PM

Hhmmm...  

LCD is definately the way to go. Widescreen is definately the way to go.

Once you do that you'll never go back to a square CRT box.

I'm concerned the budget might be a bit low though. I'd have to look around, but my personal style is to wait a bit longer, save up a bit more, and in the long run come home with something much better.


I'll look around for some deals.


ADDING:  Actually, you may do well for $250.

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16824009108

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16824116065

http://www.newegg.co...p;name=Monitors

ADDED: I just noticed everything is carrying the "Windows Vista Certified" on it. I find that amusing.
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#3 Aldous

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 04:40 PM

I agree that a wide aspect LCD is the way to go.

Two things to note when LCD shopping:  Contrast ratio and refresh time.

You want a contrast ratio of at minimum 800:1, with the bigger number being the better.  For refresh, optimally, a 2ms refresh is best for gaming.  5ms monitors are quite adequate, and you want to make your absolute cut off 8ms.  Anything slower than 8ms will be fine for surfing or "productivity", but will make games and video look "smeared".
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#4 Wingshot

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 04:52 PM

I have had great luck with samsung - I currently use a desktop setup of 4 19" monitors and for gaming a Samsung LCD HD TV. In all cases they really perform well and I have had no issues.

As Aldous said you do want to get the refresh rate low - 25 ms maybe OK for work but it won't cut it for gaming.

#5 Cutter

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 04:57 PM

Thanks for the quick input. It is nice to know what to look for as far as the specs too. Nice links there MON, I get 95% of my stuff from NewEgg when I do builds, ZipZoomFly is pretty good too. Thanks again.

#6 MONOLITH

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 04:58 PM

View PostWingshot, on Aug 4 2007, 07:00 PM, said:

I currently use a desktop setup of 4 19" monitors and for gaming a Samsung LCD HD TV.

Boy, I'd love to see that setup.

I'm real tempted to try out the whole dual monitors for gaming thing, but it only seems really practical for games that support two screens, like a tactical map on one and the 3d world on the other.

What size is the TV?
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#7 Wingshot

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 05:53 PM

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The tv is a 40" LCD

#8 Cutter

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 06:04 PM

View PostWingshot, on Aug 4 2007, 08:01 PM, said:

Posted Image

The tv is a 40" LCD




Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude !

:drool:

#9 }SkOrPn--7

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 08:52 PM

View Post}SkOrPn--7, on Mar 21 2007, 04:27 PM, said:

Don't get 22" most are TN and are lower in quality seek out any S-IPS and also most 22" are 6bit colour and again seek out 8bit or above. I know money maybe a issue but the truth about it is you pay for what you get.

While hardware you can purchase some crappy products and be stung wishing you spent a little more but in most case you can get away with it. Monitors on the other hand many over look and to me there one of the biggest items that when looking for spend up big and research heavily. If need be save more and go straight out for the best because every time you turn it on your not going to mumble to yourself if it performs and be kicking yourself that you didn't hold off until more funds came in to buy better if it doesn't perform.

Better to be happy now than grit your teeth and blame BFS for a poor game when it turns out it was the cheap nasty monitor all along.  :thumbsup:


View Post}SkOrPn--7, on Mar 22 2007, 05:28 AM, said:

MONOLITH did you order the adjustable stand because that is to my reading a addon if you wish to purchase it?

S-PVA is a cheap screen while S-IPS is the rolls royce so next time your in the hunt for an upgrade make sure you check things like that out. I know your happy with your monitor but there is so much  :bs: companies try and push to cover over the marketing hype it gets confusing.

Anyone can claim 5ms response time but how did they achieve that is the question and is that a true response time? While your not seeing any ghosting which is a great thing just beware again of false specs without giving the complete picture.

I agree you will be happy with your purchase and I'm not knocking it but many tend to forget that a monitor is a major purchase and quality should always be high on the list when making such a purchase. Many spend $$$ on there PC hardware but fail to spend $$$ on there monitor. This leads to them being disappoint in there hardware purchase but the fact is there monitor is letting them down.  :thumbsup:

View Post}SkOrPn--7, on Mar 22 2007, 05:52 AM, said:

This might help you out.....

VA Panel Technology

S-PVA and MVA panels are middle of the road panels. They offer better color reproduction and wider viewing angles than TN panels, but have slower response times. They are very similar to S-IPS on paper. They also offer large viewing angles and good color reproduction, though not as good as S-IPS. The response times are generally worse than TN or S-IPS panels and there have been reports of a few monitors with VA panels that suffer from input lag, so they may not be the best choice for gaming. S-PVA has the advantage of higher contrast ratios than the other panel types which leads to better black levels. The biggest disadvantage of S-PVA panels is color shifting. Color shifting is when the image from one angle changes or "shifts" when viewed from another angle. This bothers many users to the point they will not even consider buying an S-PVA panel, while others don't even notice the color shifts. Color shifts also cause a loss of shadow detail in dark scenes when viewed directly from the center. Prices on S-PVA panels are around the same or slightly cheaper than S-IPS panels, but they are much easier to find as many manufacturers use S-PVA panels. Also, almost all monitors in the popular 24" category use S-PVA panels.

TN Panel Technology

TN panels are the most widely used panel type as they are cheap and offer excellent response times, making them perfect for fast paced gaming. The response times of current TN panels range from 2ms to 5ms. However, color reproduction, viewing angles and contrast ratios of TN panels are the worst of any LCD panel technology. Unlike most 8-bit S-IPS/S-PVA/MVA panels, TN panels are only 6-bit and unable to display the full 16.7 million colors available in 24-bit true color. They can mimick the 16.7 million colors of 8-bit panels using a technique called dithering, but the results are unimpressive. TN panels have become popular with the average user because they are very inexpensive. They are also the only panels currently being used in 22" widescreen monitors, a very popular size. Many of these 22" TN panels are around the same price or cheaper than other 20" monitors with different panel types, so it is easy to see how how they gained popularity. Afterall, the average user buys a monitor based on price and size.

View Post}SkOrPn--7, on Mar 22 2007, 10:09 PM, said:

Some manufactures will willing display that information and other requires some digging around or going into the panel controls and seeing if you can find it but too do that depends on brand name to achieve it. Most monitors require you hold down a set number of button then turn it off and let it boot again pressing a few more buttons to get that screen pop up and look.

Backlight Bleeding: An LCD Problem

The entire surface of an LCD is backlit from behind by a light source (CCFL light) and the LCD blocks out the light that is not needed. Backlight bleeding occurs when this light is not 100% blocked allowing some light to "bleed" through the LCD causing spots of lighter areas on a dark or black background. Unfortunately, almost all LCDs suffer at least a small amount of backlight bleed because the opacity of LCD panels is not enough to block all light, though it only causes problems if it can be easily detected by the human eye.

Fixing Backlight Bleed

In general, there is no definite fix for backlight bleeding, although some users in this thread have had success improving the bleeding on the model 2005FPW Dell LCD using the method listed. The best way to fix backlight bleed is to have the monitor replaced or avoid LCD's which are known to have bleeding problems all together. Read reviews on the model of LCD you plan on purchasing, buy from a retailer that will allow you to exchange the display if there are any major problems and if possible try to view a display model or two before you buy. Even this does not guarantee you will receive an LCD completely free from bleeding.


The above was taken from another thread and might also help you out but I must also add make sure what ever LCD you get make sure it has DVI and if it only has AGP then forget it.

#10 MONOLITH

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 09:02 PM

Good job }SkOrPn--7.   :thumbsup:
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#11 Grendel

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 09:18 PM

That Acer monitor is garbage.  I use it at work.  Avoid it at all costs.  If it helps you at all, my Samsung HDTV has broken and died six times.  I don't really enjoy their products, considering.

I wouldn't go for any of those budget monitors either.  You're going to want to insure that your monitor is HDCP compatible because Vista and the MPAA love DRM restrictions.  Otherwise, you run the risk of videos and what-have-you being restricted (yay, DRM).  It's becoming a bigger problem than most people imagined (considering the wide number of video cards and monitors to worry about).

Also, make sure the monitor can display 1080p properly.  A common resolution to shoot for is 1920x1200.  The higher the better.  Settle for nothing less.

Personally, I think Dell and Apple are the best display manufacturers.  They both have the same source for the panels.  The Apple monitors are more elegant, but lack as many video inputs and are slightly more expensive.  The Dell monitor is the best choice for versatility, but has bad batches and malfunctioning ports every now and then.  The 24" Dell LCD panel often goes on sale once a year for about $380-420 or so.  It's loaded with inputs (HDMI, DVI, VGA, Component, etc.) - although - last year's model apparently had a serious wash-out issue with the VGA port.  I imagine it has been fixed by now.
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#12 Cutter

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Posted 04 August 2007 - 09:29 PM

Thanks for the very informative post SKORPN, by looking at the specs on Newegg, it doesn't specify the panel technology......or am I not looking at it right? Is display type the same thing?

Thanks for the info as well Grendel.

#13 }SkOrPn--7

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 01:15 AM

View PostCutter, on Aug 5 2007, 03:37 AM, said:

Thanks for the very informative post SKORPN, by looking at the specs on Newegg, it doesn't specify the panel technology......or am I not looking at it right? Is display type the same thing?

Thanks for the info as well Grendel.

Cutter this is my personal choice and just so you know I don't work for Dell nor do I get any kick backs I'm saying this because I want you to get a product that is going to last and leave a happy feeling that you spent the extra money on quality. The second reason is I own a Dell monitor and can vouch for the product. I have not yet had a Dell monitor get pulled out of the box with dead pixels and Dell are known for swapping them over should you have such a problem but will the other companies do that?

The first which is my choice for you because I know your going to be over the moon using it should you go with this one it's the second from the left........

Dell 2007WFP 20" UltraSharp Wide Screen Flat Panel LCD Monitor

If that screen is too big then my next choice for you is.......

Dell SE198WFP 19" Widescreen LCD Monitor

However this is my problem with the above compared to the first screen the "Viewing Angle (Degrees)160? (vertical) typ, 160? (horizontal) typ" is less and I recommend all monitors you look at be like the first monitor because that has a "Viewing Angle (Degrees) 178? (vertical) typ, 178? (horizontal) typ" which is far better being 178 degrees.

Second positive point is that the first monitor is also "UltraSharp" giving you a far better image quality of being crisper plus you can also have a far better Adjustability
Height Adjustable Stand 130MM Pivot Landscape & Portrait Swivel 45? Left to Right Tilt 4? Forward 21? Backward.

Now those links are Dell Australia because the links for the USA don't give enough details on the products so remember that the prices I showed are in Australian $$$ and need to be converted to US $$$.

This is my opinion Dell always has specials that come around and is the best time to buy and for that reason hold off save your money and get the first monitor at the special price when offered and your not going to be unhappy.

Final point with a new monitor to push the High resolutions your graphic card is going to have to be a decent one or your not going to be able to see the quality of the screen in action with gaming. It will be ok with just normal desktop work but gaming like everything to get the best performance you also need decent hardware.

Sure you can drop the Res but why would you want to do that when you could have everything looking perty.

Cutter I can't stress this enough you buy cheap and your going to be disappointed. Most people forget that two items that should never be over looked and never buy cheap is your PSU (power supply unit) and your monitor and anyone of those if you make a poor choice your always going to be blaming the game or other hardware because you pay for what you get. I don't want to see you get ripped off and become unhappy with something down the track so research now and don't be in a hurry if need be save that little extra.  :thumbsup:

One more point the Dell also offer extra USB ports and many other featurs that the cheap monitors miss and to be honest you might not think you need those extras but until you do have them you then realize what a bonus they are.

:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

Edited by }SkOrPn--7, 05 August 2007 - 01:24 AM.


#14 Cutter

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 08:45 AM

View Post}SkOrPn--7, on Aug 5 2007, 03:23 AM, said:

The first which is my choice for you because I know your going to be over the moon using it should you go with this one it's the second from the left........

This is my opinion Dell always has specials that come around and is the best time to buy and for that reason hold off save your money and get the first monitor at the special price when offered and your not going to be unhappy.

Final point with a new monitor to push the High resolutions your graphic card is going to have to be a decent one or your not going to be able to see the quality of the screen in action with gaming. It will be ok with just normal desktop work but gaming like everything to get the best performance you also need decent hardware.

Sure you can drop the Res but why would you want to do that when you could have everything looking perty.



The one you prefer having an 8ms response time would still be good for gaming? I will wait for a Dell to have a deal, I get coupons from them in the mail as well.

My system is a couple of years old. I have a BFG 6800GT OC right now, of course when I built it it was border line top notch (the system as a whole). I can still salvage my Lian Li case and Raptor HD though on my next build :yes:  You think my card will be ok with this monitor? I will not be able to upgrade for another 6-9 months. Another thing, my gaming computer is my work computer as well, I work from home and my computer is a large part of it, I am on it a lot. I assume text will be clean and crisp as well? I read one review of a person saying the text was fuzzy, but maybe they had no clue how to set it up or a poor video card.

Thanks.

#15 }SkOrPn--7

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 09:22 AM

View PostCutter, on Aug 5 2007, 02:53 PM, said:

The one you prefer having an 8ms response time would still be good for gaming? I will wait for a Dell to have a deal, I get coupons from them in the mail as well.

My system is a couple of years old. I have a BFG 6800GT OC right now, of course when I built it it was border line top notch (the system as a whole). I can still salvage my Lian Li case and Raptor HD though on my next build :yes:  You think my card will be ok with this monitor? I will not be able to upgrade for another 6-9 months. Another thing, my gaming computer is my work computer as well, I work from home and my computer is a large part of it, I am on it a lot. I assume text will be clean and crisp as well? I read one review of a person saying the text was fuzzy, but maybe they had no clue how to set it up or a poor video card.

Thanks.

That 8ms is grey to grey and you will see no ghosting so for gaming your going to be very happy and your current graphics card will eat that monitor or any monitor so no issues there. Your going to have great looking graphics and a huge res with plenty of real estate to move your work apps around so don't worry there either. Because you work from home the bigger the screen the more your going to enjoy such a big monitor then when you fire up your games for the first time your going to be blown away at the size of your game.

Yes the text will be clean and crisp providing you do a few things after plugging in your brand spanking new monitor which requires a few tweaks but are very simple to do. Once you do get the monitor just ring the bell and I will be more than happy to walk you through setting that sucker up to ensure you have "clear type" to your liking and do the very important dead pixel test for all colour ranges.  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

Here are the two links for sorting out crappy text........

ClearType Tuner PowerToy

ClearType Tuner

The first link you will find a link to download a small program that will install into your contaol panel so it can be used when ever you desire.  :thumbsup:

Edited by }SkOrPn--7, 05 August 2007 - 09:45 AM.


#16 Cutter

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 09:59 AM

View Post}SkOrPn--7, on Aug 5 2007, 11:30 AM, said:

That 8ms is grey to grey and you will see no ghosting so for gaming your going to be very happy and your current graphics card will eat that monitor or any monitor so no issues there.


Yes the text will be clean and crisp providing you do a few things after plugging in your brand spanking new monitor which requires a few tweaks but are very simple to do. Once you do get the monitor just ring the bell and I will be more than happy to walk you through setting that sucker up to ensure you have "clear type" to your liking and do the very important dead pixel test for all colour ranges.  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

Good deal ! I will wait and watch for it to go on sale then and hit you up when I get it. Thanks for all the input and posts from everyone, much appreciated.  :thumbsup:

#17 Spectre65

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 10:13 AM

View Post}SkOrPn--7, on Aug 5 2007, 03:23 AM, said:


Cutter this is my personal choice and just so you know I don't work for Dell nor do I get any kick backs I'm saying this because I want you to get a product that is going to last and leave a happy feeling that you spent the extra money on quality. The second reason is I own a Dell monitor and can vouch for the product. I have not yet had a Dell monitor get pulled out of the box with dead pixels and Dell are known for swapping them over should you have such a problem but will the other companies do that?

The first which is my choice for you because I know your going to be over the moon using it should you go with this one it's the second from the left........

Dell 2007WFP 20" UltraSharp Wide Screen Flat Panel LCD Monitor

If that screen is too big then my next choice for you is.......

Dell SE198WFP 19" Widescreen LCD Monitor

However this is my problem with the above compared to the first screen the "Viewing Angle (Degrees)160? (vertical) typ, 160? (horizontal) typ" is less and I recommend all monitors you look at be like the first monitor because that has a "Viewing Angle (Degrees) 178? (vertical) typ, 178? (horizontal) typ" which is far better being 178 degrees.

Second positive point is that the first monitor is also "UltraSharp" giving you a far better image quality of being crisper plus you can also have a far better Adjustability
Height Adjustable Stand 130MM Pivot Landscape & Portrait Swivel 45? Left to Right Tilt 4? Forward 21? Backward.

Now those links are Dell Australia because the links for the USA don't give enough details on the products so remember that the prices I showed are in Australian $$$ and need to be converted to US $$$.

This is my opinion Dell always has specials that come around and is the best time to buy and for that reason hold off save your money and get the first monitor at the special price when offered and your not going to be unhappy.

Final point with a new monitor to push the High resolutions your graphic card is going to have to be a decent one or your not going to be able to see the quality of the screen in action with gaming. It will be ok with just normal desktop work but gaming like everything to get the best performance you also need decent hardware.

Sure you can drop the Res but why would you want to do that when you could have everything looking perty.

Cutter I can't stress this enough you buy cheap and your going to be disappointed. Most people forget that two items that should never be over looked and never buy cheap is your PSU (power supply unit) and your monitor and anyone of those if you make a poor choice your always going to be blaming the game or other hardware because you pay for what you get. I don't want to see you get ripped off and become unhappy with something down the track so research now and don't be in a hurry if need be save that little extra.  :thumbsup:

One more point the Dell also offer extra USB ports and many other featurs that the cheap monitors miss and to be honest you might not think you need those extras but until you do have them you then realize what a bonus they are.

:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

You really can't go wrong with Dell.  And their stuff really is worth the extra cash.

Good call, Skorp ! ! :thumbsup:

#18 Grendel

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 01:13 PM

Good call, Grendel.  Thanks, Grendel.



Don't get the regular Dell panels.  They are also garbage.  'UltraSharp' is what you want.  20" or 24" (or do they call it 23" these days?.  It's a super-nice monitor.  Enjoy it.
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#19 MONOLITH

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 01:15 PM

I really wanted that Dell 24". But at the time I went for it, there was some issue of it not being available.

I ended up with this instead. Not quite as big, but has gamed really well, including hooking up my 360 to it.

http://www.pcmag.com...,1910534,00.asp


It was about $500.
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#20 }SkOrPn--7

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 06:59 PM

Thanks for the  :thumbsup: Spec and while I'm at it the MONO's monitor is a good one too.  :thumbsup:




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