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LCD Monitor

Started by Cutter, Aug 04 2007 04:16 PM

#41 zoog

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 08:36 AM

View PostPsychomorph, on Nov 4 2008, 12:12 PM, said:

- People tell that there are graphical issues, poor display of dark grey shades, very dark and very bright pixels do not look right or something like this. It is supposed to be very good for games and movies, but less for desktop and graphikdesign (I need all of this to work well though).
If you need a monitor that can handle true colors for professional graphics design and stuff like that you should look at the 800 ~ 900 euro range if you want a big one. I think you won't get that with your current price:size ratio. Take Apple Cinema display for example, the 24 inch is a very good display with great colors, but you pay about 849,- euro for it. A price ration of 300~350eur for 24/26inch to 450eur for 28inch is unfortunately unrealistic for quality monitors (color wise) IMO.
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#42 }SkOrPn--7

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 08:54 AM

zoog is right you get what you pay for so Psychomorph don't go buying anything just yet it's late here and I need some sleep so tomorrow I will ask you some questions then we can move forward. Lets get the ball rolling what is your maximum budget?

In the mean time read post 9 from start to finish to make sure your in the loop and up too speed with tech info.

#43 Psychomorph

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 09:48 AM

I don't need a professional one in that case (else I'd go for higher priced), but an allrounder for home (focus on gaming).
The one I have got ok colours and is suitable for "easy" graphic work, gaming and movies. The only problem is to much light on the corners and black is to bright, I know that is typical for the cheaper TN pannel, but I hope the next will be slightly better there.

I read some very bad things about that ViewSonic, stating things below what you expect from that. My problem with the AMILO is that I don't read much about it at all.


I have seen the Samsung SyncMaster 2693HM, 26".
People tell good things about it, the only real issue are the non illuminated touch sensor buttons. It costs 100 Euro more than the AMILO though, if it is the technology than ok, but if it is the extra features (USB hub, better design, adjustable in height and pivot, etc) than I might go for the AMILO.


Hmm...


@}SkOrPn--7:

Priority:
Gaming > Movies > Desktop > Graphic stuff (nothing professional, but have to be capable of)

Size:
24" at minimum, but preferably 26".
28" seems a bit to large, not sure if the 1920x1200 resolution will be good with it, I heared 26" is better there.
Basically I aim at 26".

Prize:
I was ready to pay 350€ for the AMILO (glad I found it for 300), but wouldn't mind to pay 400€ for the Samsung (if Grendel allows).
I think not more than that, but a worth considering product could eventually change that, it depends.

Edited by Psychomorph, 04 November 2008 - 10:14 AM.

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#44 zoog

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 10:54 AM

View PostPsychomorph, on Nov 4 2008, 04:48 PM, said:

I have seen the Samsung SyncMaster 2693HM, 26".
People tell good things about it, the only real issue are the non illuminated touch sensor buttons.
I bought the Samsung SyncMaster T220 in september (thread can be found here). After 2 days I brought it back to the store and got my money back. I expected a good monitor from Samsung but there was lot's of bleeding light on the edges of the screen and black wasn't really black. For some reason most people say it's good though, that's why the store clerk was really surprised to hear that I wasn't satisfied with the quality of the monitor. The price/quality ratio might be good, but it wasn't what I was looking for.

For some reason these monitors look good in the shop, but when you take a closer look at home when it's hooked up to your system you'll see the actual quality of the screen. If you buy one, make sure that you can return it for money back and don't open things like the sealed driver cd or the cables. Use your own cables and download the drivers so you can return it nice and easy.
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#45 }SkOrPn--7

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 03:36 PM

Good advice zoog on using all your own cables for a return......

Also Psychomorph no matter how great a PC you have and graphics card if the monitor lets you down in image quality there is nothing you can do but live with it. Never in my opinion let a monitor drag your system down. It's best to save for a little longer and get a better quality one because that is what your going to be looking at when your in front of your PC and gaming.

As far as I'm aware 24"-27" monitors all have a native res of 1920x1200

Psychomorph I just did a conversion of 400 to my $$$ and if you saved a little more you can purchase the Rolls Royce of monitors that being a Dell.

If your going to purchase such a big monitor this is the time to make the right decision and do it right without rushing it. Long after you upgrade your PC the monitor will still be sitting there and no amount of hardware upgrades is going to turn a horrible monitor into a princess. Also weigh up the cost of replacing monitors that are out of warranty and have started having issues this mostly happens with the low end range so don't forget that.

Backlight bleeding watch for
Dead pixels check for
DVI is minimum or a combo of DVI-D/ HDVI The latter delivers the best image quality and is standard format of today and DVI was the quality format of yesterday so HDVI is what your aiming for but nothing less than DVI.

Go over HERE and research other monitors that might just suit your price range and what your looking for. Take your time don't rush a purchase or your going to be unhappy.

I think AMILO will deliver what it is your after but just don't rush it keep looking. I'm not going to ask questions reading your answers is enough along with budget.

#46 Grendel

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 04:24 PM

I can't honestly suggest Samsung anything at this point.

In all honesty, the best monitor you could possibly ever buy is the Dell Ultrasharp (WFP model).  It has a solid build, excellent 'ease-of-use' design philosophy.  Beyond all of that?  Features, feature, features.

The 24" Ultrasharp WFP monitor is loaded with connector options.  You could use it for your PC, consoles and cable box as a TV.  There's simply no reason to purchase another monitor, in my opinion.

Theses monitors use the same panels that Apple uses in their 'Cinema Display' line.  The only difference is that the Apple monitors look better, and are probably a bit more sturdy.  With that said, I see absolutely no reason to ever settle for less than one every popular video input.

I'm still on the fence over the 2408 model.  There are some negative reviews from professionals, and I still want to see how the monitor handles HDMI audio (from say, a PS3) before i pull the trigger.  But overall, the 'UltraSharp' line has been excellent.
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#47 Psychomorph

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 04:31 PM

@}SkOrPn--7:

Thanks.

You actually reminded me on my own philosophy, to buy tech for long time use. My last mouse had a price and it served me 4,5 years, my first and only MD Player costed insane money (for that time) and it still works, since '99. I remember my dad complained when I bought expensive tech, then he complained because his cheap tech ceased working soon. :D
I guess I will apply this to the monitor aswell, but I do not want to pay 1.000's, because I need a Ground Branch ready machine soon and this will eat bucks.

A DoubleSight DS-265W Black 26" was suggested in the one thread and it has even a good price (700$ ~ 535€), but it seems not to be available yet. It is not available over here though, so it must be an overseas shipment and this is where you need to be sure, since an exchange is not that easy.
The previous model DS- 263N is basically the same with less features.

The pannel type is IPS (the DS-265W, dunno about the other), I hear very good reviews about it, but is it gaming capable?


@Grendel:

So you have the UltraSharp? How good is it, I mean how much gradient from top to bottom? How well the black in dark room? How little "light bleeding"? What panel type (seems I can't find info on that)? Good for gaming? Etc.
Also, why is the UltraSharp so much better?

Man, I bet it is another U.S.A. exclusive thing, have to import. Why the good stuff is always... elsewhere.

Edited by Psychomorph, 04 November 2008 - 04:44 PM.

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#48 Grendel

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 04:50 PM

The 'UltraSharp' uses a premium panel, designed specifically for graphics work and video.  It's one of the sharpest panels you could possibly get your hands on.  In sum, it's their 'premium' brand, rather than the monitor that is included with most of their systems.

The normal Dell monitors are decent, but the 'UltraSharp' brand is usually a lot better (in terms of total resolution and contrast ratio).  Some people make a big deal about the 'OMG 5ms response time!', but it's a non-issue.  I played 'TF2' on it every day and never had a problem.

As far as bleed?  I hadn't noticed any.  I used two older 'UltraSharp' monitors at work, and was quite pleased with the picture quality.  These monitors were used mostly for creating word documents and gaming.

As for the make of the LCD panel itself?  It varies between a handful of companies.  There's a resource that identifies which panel is in which revision.  I seem to have misplaced that page.  :(

But the last I read, the 2408 uses the better of the common panels, and people are quite pleased with it.

Maybe I can dig up that page again...
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#49 }SkOrPn--7

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 04:54 PM

Psychomorph I also have the Dell UltraSharp Widescreen 24" and like I keep saying Dell is the Rolls Royce of monitors no dead pixels, no bleeding etc it is the best there is and has never missed a beat from being un-packed. Grendel says the same thing and when your ready to make a purchase make sure that you purchase the "revision number" that has any issue fixed.

Sure you paying big money but wait for the coupon deals before making a Dell purchase you can save 100's of Euro's. I understand that you want to be GB ready but you can always build a system in stages and try and use what hardware you now have but a quality monitor can't be built in stages and what you choose now will be what you live with.

While you mentioned PC upgrade hold off "Nehalem" is going to be a ripper of a CPU so keep that in mind as well.

#50 Psychomorph

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 05:39 PM

Thanks guys, you got me interested into the dell monitor. Since I aim at long time use, I think about the Dell UltraSharp 2709W.
24" is cool, but soon it won't be and I think anything beyond 26/27" (means 30"+) is not necessary for gaming (I mean it's to huge), 26/27 seems really the optimum to me.

Also Dell as company is presented locally, so shipping will be less of an issue.

View Post}SkOrPn--7, on Nov 4 2008, 11:54 PM, said:

when your ready to make a purchase make sure that you purchase the "revision number" that has any issue fixed.
Yeah I read about REV A00 and REV A01, so I have to be sure it is the REV A01, right? I read rumors say there is something like a REV A02, but I didn't dig further on that.

View Post}SkOrPn--7, on Nov 4 2008, 11:54 PM, said:

Sure you paying big money but wait for the coupon deals before making a Dell purchase you can save 100's of Euro's.

What is a coupon deal?

View Post}SkOrPn--7, on Nov 4 2008, 11:54 PM, said:

While you mentioned PC upgrade hold off "Nehalem" is going to be a ripper of a CPU so keep that in mind as well.
Ok. After the "monitor issue" will be cleared, I will need more advice regarding building a new PC in the other thread, so stay tuned. :D


EDIT:
Ok, I hear that the "Dell Ultra Sharp 2709W" has some problems with input lag (Dell forum, but also elsewhere). The LG Flatron W2600HP comes close to the Dell in quality and performance, but has much less input lag. Hmm...

Edited by Psychomorph, 04 November 2008 - 06:23 PM.

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#51 Grendel

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 09:04 PM

It all comes down to inputs for me.  If it doesn't have:

  • HDMI
  • DVI
  • VGA
  • Component
  • Composite

Then I'm not touching it.

I see no reason for all monitors to not follow that specification.
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#52 Jsonedecker

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 07:18 AM

View PostGrendel, on Nov 4 2008, 06:24 PM, said:

In all honesty, the best monitor you could possibly ever buy is the Dell Ultrasharp (WFP model).  It has a solid build, excellent 'ease-of-use' design philosophy.  Beyond all of that?  Features, feature, features.

The 24" Ultrasharp WFP monitor is loaded with connector options.  You could use it for your PC, consoles and cable box as a TV.  There's simply no reason to purchase another monitor, in my opinion.


I can attest to this with first hand experience. I have been running one for 3 years (one of the original models) and can say it is simply the best monitor I have ever had.

I can run my 360/PS3 on it as well as my cable TV and of course computer. It's awesome. The new ones have HDCP so that would be the only thing I am lacking in my older model..... but as far as a monitor goes, it's second to none.

#53 galzohar

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 07:37 AM

The 22" I bought (2ms 1:30000 LG W2284F) is awesome. As for the size, to be honest if it was any bigger I would need to move my chair backwards to compensate. My monitor may be right behind my keyboard, but I really don't have a need to be able to be further away most of the time. Watching movies though would've been nicer if I'd have a bigger monitor and can watch them from my bed, but that would require a pretty big one. And even this monitor is actually about as big as the TV in my room that I never turn on (due to content available, not due to the quality of the TV).

Edited by galzohar, 05 November 2008 - 07:37 AM.

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#54 Nemesis

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 07:48 AM

TBH - price will pay a big part in any purchase. Here Ive just used kelkoo to do a quick search & look at reviews, costs & specs. You can define your budget & h/w requirements at the top panel to help focus attention.

http://computing.kel...screen,24_-_27_

...from here I would then start doing independant research & seeking if I can get the item cheaper.
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#55 Psychomorph

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 08:15 AM

View PostJsonedecker, on Nov 5 2008, 02:18 PM, said:

I can attest to this with first hand experience. I have been running one for 3 years (one of the original models) and can say it is simply the best monitor I have ever had.

I can run my 360/PS3 on it as well as my cable TV and of course computer. It's awesome. The new ones have HDCP so that would be the only thing I am lacking in my older model..... but as far as a monitor goes, it's second to none.
Sounds nice. Do you have the 24" model? How is gaming with it? I mean are 6ms good enough?

I am interested into the 27" model and I guess you guys have no experience with it, but I assume you can expect the same level of quality as with the previous models, no?
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#56 Jsonedecker

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 08:34 AM

I have the 24" and it plays games excellent. I see no ghosting or bleed at all. I mainly play newer games in 1680x1050 to get the added framerate and things look great. No blurryness at all.

In my opinion, the 27" monitors are too big normal use. Graphics pros and even programmers would benefit from them, but for everyday use and gaming they seem too big for me. Your graphics card comes into play more as well due to the increased resolution needed for native display and the extra upscaling needed if running in a lower resolution will llok worse due to the physical size it needs to cover.

#57 Cpl Ledanek

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 10:25 AM

didn't want to jump in until someone mentioned it  :whistle:
I too have the UltraSharp 2407FPW-HC Rev A00... I don't have a HDMI input on it, coz I don't have anything to connect with it with HDMI.

I bought it for Photoshop primarily.  The wall facing the monitor is 50% Grey....supposed from a graphic designer/Photoshop Guru, the 50% Grey doesn't fool with your calibration or whatever your seeing.
Colors are vibrant.


Gaming wise: I've read about the ghosting also...that concerned me most.  Then again, most games listed that showed ghosting were RPG games...which I don't play.
ADD...longer story. <_<
With Dell, its easy to swap for another monitor per Dell Customer (in Dell Forum/AVS/Gaming forums)

games: GR,RB6,Regiment,Crysis,COD4,Race07/GTR Evo/Richard Burns Rally/Colin McRae 2...I think that's it????...all played at native resolution of 1900-something with my 8800 GTX using DVI connection...no problem.

Features: Up & Down, swivel, tilt, landscape, portrait, 2 more USBs, CF/SD inputs...

very happy purchase....

I waited 2 yrs I think until General Accnt Office/wife approved purchase...I waited till it was $125 off + EPP (Employee Purchase Program) took off or paid for the shipping discount=free.
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#58 Psychomorph

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 10:53 AM

On a testing site they tested the input lag. Left CRT, right 2709W:

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Hmm...
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#59 Nemesis

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 10:58 AM

View PostPsychomorph, on Nov 5 2008, 04:53 PM, said:

On a testing site they tested the input lag. Left CRT, right 2709W:
confused...would that interprete to a kill/miss in FPS ?!
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#60 Psychomorph

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 11:11 AM

I share that "confusion" with you.
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