[oorlogshond]

I've done a search here but was unable to find a topic or post regarding this matter. Maybe i missed or didn't look well enough. Anyway here is my question/suggestion regarding sound effects. Usually in FPS games developers use recordings of weaponsounds and just use that for the game but what about the surroundings where you're firing a weapon? There is a huge difference in how a gun sounds in a small room or outside in the woods. Will BFS take this into account? This ofcourse goes for all the sounds in the game, not just the guns.

[Jsonedecker]

Yes, we are going to do our best to take those things into account. We *may* have actual sound occlusion based on the topology and geometry of outdoor areas and that will help. But that is not definite.

[oorlogshond]

Jsonedecker, on Oct 2 2007, 07:01 AM, said:

Yes, we are going to do our best to take those things into account. We *may* have actual sound occlusion based on the topology and geometry of outdoor areas and that will help. But that is not definite.

Good to hear!  

In most games it's the visuals that take all the attention. While visuals are of course important, sound seem to play almost always a secondary role even though it plays a huge factor when it comes to the immersion of the game.

It's detail & innovation like this that really make me look forward to a game like Ground Branch. Another thing that amazes me is a developer that, literally, responds within a few minutes.

[Nemesis]

oorlogshond, on Oct 2 2007, 02:13 PM, said:

Another thing that amazes me is a developer that, literally, responds within a few minutes.

John has 12 systems in his room & his relatives all reading the forums whilst he beavers away. They just shout out the question he shouts back the answer & they login as him to reply so quickly. His Aunt looks quite exhausted     

[whatwehad]

I really loved Rouge Spear gun sounds. ESP the silenced pistols. I dont know why. Makes we want to get a silencer for my Taurus PT92C 9mm.

[MONOLITH]

oorlogshond, on Oct 2 2007, 09:13 AM, said:

Another thing that amazes me is a developer that, literally, responds within a few minutes.

Welcome to BFS.  

[unwritt3n]

I remember talking with Desmond22 (The sound engineer for GRAW2).
If there is one replication of sound I loved, which he said was an influence to his sound in GRAW2... Is the highway shootout scene in HEAT the movie.
Well it's pretty much the whole movie, the gun sounds are realistic, most modern movies make the guns so too fake. HEAT left it raw and with heaps of reverb. It sounded more authentic.

I hope we will hear sounds like that... I believe all games never get the sound balancing right. Personally in a game, when you fire a gun it should be bloody loud like in real life. Ricochets should not be louder than a .50 cal (GRAW2 :S). The sounds of movement should not be louder, dialouge should not be louder.. All games seem to make gunshots a low priority...

Also, I think when shooting, the sound should come out all speakers. (I'm talking here for ppl with 5.1 setups). I hate it when games make the gun only come out of the centre speakr, or just the centre and front right becasue of the position of the gun on screen. Personally I think it should come out all speakers to make it really stand out....

I dunno, that's just what I think.

[}SkOrPn--7]

That was something that I did appreciate with GRAW was the sound and graphics. I think Desmond did an outstanding job but I'm confident John will deliver with sound in this game so for me I'm not too worried.  

[bangurdead]

as long as you have all the sounds of a gun's, equipment (grenades, flash bangs, etc) etc... (would be neat to throw on all the equipment to record what sounds happen when something happens)

spent casings hitting the ground
(loved this sound on Ghost Recon2)

empty magazines hitting the ground
(on fast reloads?)

or

the Velcro being pulled on a pouch to put the magazine in and reload from (with the metal rubbing against cloth)

clicking sound when empty

firing

etc...

[WhiteKnight77]

You could hear spent casings in R6 and GR too.

[wildbill]

oorlogshond, on Oct 2 2007, 08:13 AM, said:

Good to hear!  

In most games it's the visuals that take all the attention. While visuals are of course important, sound seem to play almost always a secondary role even though it plays a huge factor when it comes to the immersion of the game.

It's detail & innovation like this that really make me look forward to a game like Ground Branch. Another thing that amazes me is a developer that, literally, responds within a few minutes.

This is key. I have noticed a big difference in Sound playing GRAW 2. This has a really nice touch to the emersion of being in combat. Using that source as an example, and it really is something of a differance in quality IMO.

[doubletap]

This may sound trivial, and even insulting to the devs' intellegence, but it's something that Sierra screwed up in swat4 so I feel it should be brought up at least once:
please take care not to get weapons sounds recorded so loudly that there is clipping and distortion. The sounds in swat are so painfully hideous I sometimes decide to play something else for that reason alone.
Oddly enough, the game got great reviews for the weapon sounds!! If you have the game, just listen closely. Maybe as a musician I pick it up better than others, who knows, but the sounds s t i n k.

As for ambient sounds, like reverb and the insulated effects of carpeting for example, it's been a while but I think it's RvS that does this very well.

Edited by doubletap, 26 November 2007 - 08:20 PM.

[Kirq]

doubletap, on Nov 26 2007, 09:17 PM, said:

This may sound trivial, and even insulting to the devs' intellegence, but it's something that Sierra screwed up in swat4 so I feel it should be brought up at least once:
please take care not to get weapons sounds recorded so loudly that there is clipping and distortion. The sounds in swat are so painfully hideous I sometimes decide to play something else for that reason alone.
Oddly enough, the game got great reviews for the weapon sounds!! If you have the game, just listen closely. Maybe as a musician I pick it up better than others, who knows, but the sounds s t i n k.

As for ambient sounds, like reverb and the insulated effects of carpeting for example, it's been a while but I think it's RvS that does this very well.

Actually i went through SWAT4 SP campaign twice and I didnt notice any problems with weapons sound. I just bought Syndicat ( expansion set for SWAT4) and I will play it soon so I'll going to check it Doubletap.

The most dissapointing sounds in game i remember was in Armed Assault, it was just incredibly fake and low quality, thanx god community repaired it with many realistic sound mods.

One of the best weapons sounds lately  in game i recall was  in Red Orchestra and GRAW2.

Im sure that BFS studios will do great job with weapons sounds but please dont forget about ambient sounds, OGR is great example of how ambient sounds should look (sound) like

[}SkOrPn--7]

oorlogshond, on Oct 2 2007, 01:13 PM, said:

Good to hear!  

In most games it's the visuals that take all the attention. While visuals are of course important, sound seem to play almost always a secondary role even though it plays a huge factor when it comes to the immersion of the game.

It's detail & innovation like this that really make me look forward to a game like Ground Branch. Another thing that amazes me is a developer that, literally, responds within a few minutes.

   Yep sound is important and I have just brought a new sound system and even I noticed a vast improvement over my old 5:1 which was great but now with new technology being added the old sounds have just got better. So with GB sounds and hard work being done I feel now I'm set for the future with this game.  

[cheap$hot]

Wow, I'm generally not a big fan of most forums, but this is one of those well executed and managed forums I've seen, then throw a great topic on top of that and now I have to post something. Kudos to BlackFoot and their open-door policy and especially NORG. I whole-heartedly agree with with every statement made so far, but would repeat the importance of authentic and realistic sounds. Since I'm pretty bad at explaining technicalities very well, I'd like to just emphasize my point by giving a few (sometimes overlooked) examples.

The Good Ones:

Insurgency: Modern Infantry Combat: Is A fantastic mod for Half-Life 2, which does a fantastic job of making their weapon sounds not only loud, but also have a raw, reverberating feel to 'em. (I highly recommend it) :notworthy:

Medal Of Honor: Airborne: Although it's not a tactical shooter, These devs went the extra mile by going to a gun range and recording all the real-life WWII weapons that were used in the game. This is especially cool, because you can actually tell who you are fighting and what your enemy is using purely by sound, since every weapon has a very unique chatter.  :thumbsup:
  
The Crap Ones:

Rainbow Six 3: Now, don't get me wrong, I really loved this game and it made mincemeat out of my teenage social-life. However, I swear the weapon sounds in that game must have all been the EXACT same sound file that they just handed to their sound tech guy and told him to try to change it up a bit by adding more base to one gun and adding a clicking sound to another. Something like that can really detach you from an otherwise good game. :nono:

PS. *cough*comment removed by moderator*cough* Excuse me, Whew!

Call of Duty 4:Modern Warfare: Once again, not a tactical game, but bear with me. I really enjoy COD4's multiplayer experience, but the problem that they have run into is a process I like to call bastardization. Focusing on the sound part of that bastardization process is the fact that the weapons have a very Mattel sound to 'em. They very much lack an intensity that is manifest on other parts of the game. Also, because I am an avid fan of the previous COD games, I noticed that the background noises are actually re-hashed sounds from the first two games. Imagine the look of disappointment on my face when running through a map and suddenly hearing a Browning Automatic Rifle go off.  :wall:

Needless to say, I think most great games don't overlook the "small" things. In fact most of the best games I have ever played were great simply because they took the time and effort to do what they are supposed to do in the first place: Deliver an immersive  experience that lets you be enveloped into their vision. I certainly hope that you guys at BlackFoot are already well an your way to doing so.


MODERATOR EDIT:  Comment removed per forum rules due to it negative nature towards a competitor.

Edited by ZJJ, 26 December 2007 - 01:39 PM.

[WhiteKnight77]

While BFS isn't RSE, they do have access to a weapons range and probably all the weapons that will be featured in GB. With the aid of the instructor from the Kennedy Special Warfare Center School, I am quite sure that they will have accurate sounds for the weapons, just like RSE did.

[Ermac]

cheap$hot, on Dec 25 2007, 08:50 PM, said:

Rainbow Six 3: Now, don't get me wrong, I really loved this game and it made mincemeat out of my teenage social-life. However, I swear the weapon sounds in that game must have all been the EXACT same sound file that they just handed to their sound tech guy and told him to try to change it up a bit by adding more base to one gun and adding a clicking sound to another. Something like that can really detach you from an otherwise good game.

PS. *cough*comment removed by moderator*cough* Excuse me, Whew!

While I love Raven Shield the gun sounds sounded nothing like a real firearm.

Edited by ZJJ, 26 December 2007 - 01:39 PM.

[krise madsen]

I prefer the short, barking firing sounds rather than the Hollywood-style roar. The weapon sounds that stand out to me are the ones sounding a bit "bland" like SWAT4. Makes it more real to me.

What really makes a difference is distant weapon sounds. They usually don't sound like a weapon close up at all. I like that.

Respectfully

krise madsen

[polloi]

Personally, I thought Raven Shield did pretty well with the sounds.  AFAIK they recorded from real weapons.  The .45 MK23 didn't have enough 'boom', and the FAMAS was super annoying [I do have some gripes].  From personal experience, I can say they did very well with the AK and M16, and the 9mms are not too bad either.  Just watch videos of real guns on youtube, it will give you a decent idea.  You can find vidoes of pistol/rifle calibers both indoor ranges and outdoor, subsonic vs. supersonic suppressed and all.

[WhiteKnight77]

I wouldn't go by videos posted on YouTube for proper sounds. Consumer grade recording products are great for "quiet" type sounds, but are completely overwhelmed by the sharp sounds of firecrackers and weapons fire. I've fired enough rounds to understand the difference.