[MONOLITH]

psYch, on Jun 28 2008, 09:47 AM, said:

beware the "over-random-ness".

Blasphemy.    


I understand your scenario; but it is a specific setup.

Keep in mind, even randomness, properly set up, is controlled by specific parameters. Meaning; Randomized spawn locations doesn't mean "anywhere, everywhere, at anytime". Even randomness, properly executed, is still controlled.


Very simply put, the player walks into a trigger zone, and based on a random number generated at mission startup, a tango may spawn at one of 4 locations. But none of those locations would allow the tango to spawn on the end of your rifle.

Even randomness needs a leash.  

[MvonB]

I trust BFS will not let me watch enemies spawn in, let alone at the end of my rifle. It completely kills any immersion.

But again, I trust BFS!  

[MONOLITH]

MvonB, on Jun 28 2008, 11:03 AM, said:

let alone at the end of my rifle.

Well, with a bayonet attachment,  that's called the 'easy difficulty level'.  

[MvonB]

MONOLITH, on Jun 28 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

Well, with a bayonet attachment,  that's called the 'easy difficulty level'.  

That's the problem . . . too easy!  

[Lightspeed]

Quote

but occasionally, the spawn was so bloody random they would appear with my rifle barrel already lodged in their mouth, or them behind me, providing infinite frustration.

thisis just a poor scripting issue - as Mono said - even randomness is a controlled state.

[tomshackell]

I think the best approach is that random positions are chosen at level start and then after that no more enemies are spawned. That makes the gameplay random, but also realistic.

I'm definitely against enemies appearing out of thin air. I found the prison rescue mission in OGR a bit annoying because of the guards that magically appeared when you picked up the POWs. I wouldn't have minded if a previously inaccessible door suddenly opened and they had run out of it, although it still would have been too predictable.

Enemies walking in from off the map is fine, but only if they do so outside the player view. It's particularly unfair when they walk in off map right next to the player. Especially when the terrain is such that you should be able to see people coming for miles. Again randomness is good here, if they always walk in from off map in the same place then it becomes too predictable.

Still I'm confident GB will get it right, after all magically appearing enemies is not in keeping with NORG philosophy. Since it's an unrealistic effect and it is not determined by the players actions (i.e. it breaks cause-effect consistency)

[MvonB]

Jsonedecker, on Jun 29 2008, 07:29 PM, said:

Our plan is to have randomization of the level scripting so that each time you play things will be different. However, that scripting will be done at the start of the level so if there are 30 bad guys in a level, all 30 will be spawned at the start of the level and not spawn in based on triggers as you move through the space.

I think this answers a lot of the questions in this thread . . .  

[krise madsen]

tomshackell, on Jul 1 2008, 11:55 AM, said:

Still I'm confident GB will get it right, after all magically appearing enemies is not in keeping with NORG philosophy. Since it's an unrealistic effect and it is not determined by the players actions (i.e. it breaks cause-effect consistency)

That's actually a very good point.

(AI-)Enemies should only be (and spawn) where there is a reason for them to be. You can't just give the enemy a tank to make that part of the mission harder. Is there a reasonable reason for them to have a tank there? If it's a tiny island then the answer would usually be "No".

The fact that GB bots will all be spawned when the mission is a huge pro-NORG feature. I must admit I was a little bit worried if BFS could pull off really good and NORG mission mechanics. Now it's obvious they've given this a lot of thought.

Respectfully

krise madsen

[V2_Bloodline]

Relinquish, on Jul 21 2007, 10:44 PM, said:

NORGmania
NORGarific
NORGophobia
NORGophilia
NORGtastic
NORGy
NORGsome
NORGish

I think the oxford english dictionary needs a new page.

I just had a NORGasm.

Sounds like the real saying too.