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Building PC

Started by Psychomorph, Sep 22 2010 04:23 PM

#21 Psychomorph

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:02 PM

View PostCpl Ledanek, on Sep 24 2010, 12:51 AM, said:

Mid-size cases used to be a problem with vidcards that are longer.
Maybe not a case since most cases are longer now.
Yeah, I read a review of the case Nemesis suggested (Xigmatek Utgard) and they give it a good rating, but mentioned that some GPU's wont even fit in and some CPU coolers have way to little space. I guess I have to find another one. Suggestions are welcome :D (as long they wont make me bankrupt).

View PostBota:16, on Sep 24 2010, 01:01 AM, said:

The i5's are very similar to i7's when it comes to gaming, they are just cheaper.  Also the X58 (i7s) motherboards are quite a bit more expensive than the P55 (i5s).  So it's kind of a double hit when you want an i7 processor.  If you don't plan on doing Crossfire/SLI you really don't need a X58 mobo.  i5's are plenty capable at pushing enough data to a single GPU to not be a bottleneck.  With the X58 motherboards and i7s you will never get your money's worth unless you are using 2 or more GPUs.  The X58 chipset is made specifically for "enthusiasts" who like to eek out every ounce of performance of their hardware by overclocking.  

Also there are P55 motherboards that have 1 PCI-E x16 and 1 PCI-E x8/ slots (the x16 slot gets "downgraded" to x8 if you are running 2 GPUs) for Crossfire/SLI.  X58 motherboards have 2 or more PCI-E X16 slots.  Recent benchmarks show no real performance gain in games when you have 2 gpus running on x16 slots over 2 gpus running over x8 slots.  

Personally I think X58 motherboards are a waste of money.  I don't run more than one GPU nor do I overclock anything.  But if you want this to be a beast for the next 3 years, then an i7 system may be what you need.  You never know what type of games will come out in the next 3 years.  

I have a P45 motherboard, E8400 C2D processor, 4GB RAM, Radeon 4870 and I haven't played a game that I didn't have enough horsepower to enjoy the game.  I built it 2 years ago.
That sounds quite encouraging. So you say the i5's are fully up to date? I had my doubts, because most i5 760 PC's I saw at the online shops were about 1 year old.

So you suggest the "Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3". I see there is a variety of them (UD2, UD4, UD6), is there any point to go for a higher UD-number?

You said "i5 760 or better", what is better than the i5 760? Or did you mean i7 by that?

Let's say I decide to go for what you suggested, are 4GB ram enough or would it still be a good idea to go for 6GB? Just to have a bit more performance and juice? Or must it be 8GB then, because i5's are dual channel memory?


To you and the other guys a thank you, helps me to get a clue.
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#22 Psychomorph

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 06:19 PM

View PostNemesis, on Sep 23 2010, 05:13 PM, said:

Compare the 460 for the 465 ?!
http://www.nvidia.co...buy_now_uk.html
....maybe a money saver...both are DX11 compatible.
Yeah I hear the GTX 460 is better than GTX 465, wonder why it's so. Also I get all the "GTX 460 vs. ATI Radeon HD5850" reviews alot on google, while no definite GTX 465 vs. Radeon 5850 comparisons.

That page, has a test and it says Radeon is 15% better. I guess it's decided.
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#23 Cpl Ledanek

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 07:52 PM

now, newer driver for 5850, if I got time, I'll Frap a level of BC2 on my Sapphire HD 58501 GB and see if you will like it.

the currency conversion is throwing me off there Psychomorph, sorry about that.  I'll help find you a case  :thumbsup:

some case size comparisons

how about Coolermaster CM 690 II Advanced

Silent Pro Gold 600W (RS-600-80GA-D3)
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#24 Psychomorph

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 09:15 PM

View PostCpl Ledanek, on Sep 24 2010, 03:52 AM, said:

Not bad, more space inside, controls on top. Thanks.
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#25 Bota:16

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 09:32 PM

The P55 motherboards use the 1156 Socket which are compatible with the i5's and a couple i7's.  Here is a link to Newegg that shows all of the Intel 1156 Socket CPUs.

http://www.newegg.co...amp;PageSize=20

Note that the i7's that are compatible with the 1156 Socket are only dual channel.  If I were to choose an i5, I would go with the i5-870.



The X58 motherboards use the 1366 Socket in which you can only use i7 processors that are made for the 1366 Socket.  Here's a link to all of the Socket 1366 i7's.

http://www.newegg.co...amp;PageSize=20

The UD3 gigabyte motherboard I recommended is because it does not have the ability to do Crossfire/SLI which lowers the price.  You will get most of all the same features as the higher numbered UD boards but lack the ability to do Crossfire/SLI.  I was under the impression you were not interested in a SLI/Crossfire configuration.  If you are wanting to do a SLI/Crossfire configuration, either now or have the ability in the future, then I would suggest going with the X58/i7 configuration.  

Also if your budget can afford to go with the i7 System then I would go with the i7 system.  Yes you will get a better and more "future proof" system.  I was merely giving you another "idea".  Many people when you ask them for recommendations they automatically say to go with the "high end" stuff when it may not necessarily be the best or only option.  I wanted to say that the midrange stuff is plenty capable and it really just comes down to how much you want to spend.  Essentially the more money you spend you will typically get a better rig, but there is a point of diminishing returns.  I feel that, with regards to gaming, that an upper end i5 system is comparable to an low to midrange i7 system.

I've owned 2 Gigabyte UD# motherboards including my current one and have never had a single issue with them.  I have owned 2 ASUS mothersboards and have issues with both of them.  Just my experience, but I know people who swear by ASUS and won't buy anything else.

BOTA:49 said:

I'm sorry, but that's the equivalent of the Kool Aid guy jumping through my wall, me replastering it, and then the Kool Aid guy jumping back in again. It doesn't make me want any damn Kool Aid!


#26 Cpl Ledanek

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 09:45 PM

View PostPsychomorph, on Sep 23 2010, 10:15 PM, said:

Not bad, more space inside, controls on top. Thanks.

two things you were looking for:
1) Space for videocard (if long)
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2) SATA docking convenience
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#27 Psychomorph

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 09:56 PM

View PostBota:16, on Sep 24 2010, 05:32 AM, said:

Note that the i7's that are compatible with the 1156 Socket are only dual channel.  If I were to choose an i5, I would go with the i5-870.
You don't mean i7-870? Because I couldn't find anything with i5-870. :unsure:

Well, I think I go for what you suggested (ATI, P55, i5, 4GB), unless someone protests against that. By my calculation I end up spending 800,- € (+/- shipping costs, or if I go for a more expensive Power Supply Unit).

Wonder what John has to say about it, as he was once mentioning the i7 to me.

View PostCpl Ledanek, on Sep 24 2010, 05:45 AM, said:

2) SATA docking convenience
I actually meant that I will use an external HD (USB) for data storage, but that HD dock is quite cool nevertheless, could prove useful.

Your research lolcat does a good job, convey my gratitude please. :D
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#28 Cpl Ledanek

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 10:05 PM

View PostPsychomorph, on Sep 23 2010, 10:56 PM, said:

I actually meant that I will use an external HD (USB) for data storage, but that HD dock is quite cool nevertheless, could prove useful.
... faster transfer...get a 2TB, dock and forget.  :thumbsup:  

View PostPsychomorph, on Sep 23 2010, 10:56 PM, said:

Your research lolcat does a good job, convey my gratitude please. :D
...demands a small cheezburger fee  :lol:
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#29 Bota:16

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 10:07 PM

Oops you're right, I meant if I was going to get a P55 motherboard I would get the i7-870.

BOTA:49 said:

I'm sorry, but that's the equivalent of the Kool Aid guy jumping through my wall, me replastering it, and then the Kool Aid guy jumping back in again. It doesn't make me want any damn Kool Aid!


#30 Psychomorph

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 10:28 PM

View PostCpl Ledanek, on Sep 24 2010, 06:05 AM, said:

... faster transfer...get a 2TB, dock and forget.  :thumbsup:
Well, if the whole tower goes up in flames, the old external might survive. :D

View PostCpl Ledanek, on Sep 24 2010, 06:05 AM, said:

...demands a small cheezburger fee  :lol:
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...and gives it to Cpl Ledanek's research cat.


View PostBota:16, on Sep 24 2010, 06:07 AM, said:

Oops you're right, I meant if I was going to get a P55 motherboard I would get the i7-870.
I see. So would it be worth it then? I mean is there a real performance gain from that configuration compared to the i5-760?
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#31 Bota:16

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 08:00 AM

I didn't realize the i5-760 was that much cheaper, no you wouldn't get that big of a performance gain in games with the i7-870.  I thought I saw them within $10 of each other but it's more like $80.

BOTA:49 said:

I'm sorry, but that's the equivalent of the Kool Aid guy jumping through my wall, me replastering it, and then the Kool Aid guy jumping back in again. It doesn't make me want any damn Kool Aid!


#32 Psychomorph

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 09:59 AM

Ok the decision is made.

GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD 5850
MB: Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3
CPU: Intel Core i5-760
HD: Samsung HD103SI 1TB SATA II
DVD: LG GH22NS50
RAM: GEIL 4GB (2x2GB) PC3-10600 DDR3-1333 CL9

CASE: Cooler Master CM690 II Advanced
PSU: DTK "Combat Power" Power Supply 750W

Do all the components have all the required cables, or do I need to buy something extra?

Is it better to have one 4GB, or 2x2GB RAM? I guess 2x2GB is better for the case one of them gets damaged, the machine still works and replacement is cheaper, but is there any difference in performance?

I wanted initially to have the 1TB HD for games and stuff and a separate HD for the OS only, what is a good size for an OS (plus few programs) HD only? 120GB enough (I think I will make double boot, but perhaps keep WinXP on the second 1TB HD)? And if so, can you recommend one? Most 120GB HD's are almost as priced as the 1TB's, what's up with that? :wacko:


I think I order tomorrow, so I give this thread one day for further input. To you guys (and especially Bota:16) big thanks.
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#33 Nemesis

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 10:29 AM

Personally I wouldnt go with a 1TB drive... imagine how long it will take if doing any defragmenting or other HD utility program!
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#34 Psychomorph

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 10:50 AM

So you'd say 500GB? I actually wanted to do that, as I have my 500GB external and don't really need all that much space, as I don't play all that many games, but with Win 7 I'd need at least 100GB for the first partition and that would make less than 400GB for games then. Unless I find a good ~120GB HD, so I'd not need to do partitions on the 500GB and keep it all to games. But the 120GB's that I found, plus the 500GB would be much more expensive than one 1TB. So don't forget if I do the 1TB, I'd have two partitions, about 200GB for the OS and the rest for games.
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#35 WhiteKnight77

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 03:52 PM

I have to go with the 1TB HD. It gives you plenty of storage options and room for everything that you want to install. I have one in my MachV and it is at least 1/3rd full right now (lots of pictures). Using Diskeeper keeps it defragmented automatically and it does not hurt gaming performance at all.

Now I know you don't have the money for it now, but storage space is cheap compared to even 10 years ago. Heck, I have one drive dedicated just a FSX and for the most part, one just for FS9 (over 95GB install with aircraft, scenery and the like).
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#36 Cpl Ledanek

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 04:36 PM

Win7 leaves a small footprint....this is going to sound like a crazy idea to most, but something to consider:

get two HDs:

1) get a fast (budget pending) smaller size, i.e. 250GB...Win7 takes like 15GB or less actually, the rest of room is for headroom for Win7 updates and maybe an entire copy of the OS for any need to look for drivers (you can put away your OS disc then)
- don't place any VERY important documents there...pictures, movies, taxes, etc.
- thinking here is, if you get infected with virus, only this HD (hopefully) is infected/damaged.  
- reformat & defrags will quicker here due to size.

suggestion: SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s

2) 500-650GB for apps/games & games saves here.
- again, hopefully the virus stays in the smaller HD.  
- if you have to reinstall the OS, the directory structure of you games, documents is undisturbed and/or will be a faster
reinstall since you already have the folder in this HD.
suggestion: Western Digital Caviar Blue WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s


later on, when 1TB goes on sale, get one for your backups, documents

Hope this makes sense

btw: I tried researching your PSU, but most are in German??? but if you go thru Amazon.com/de, you can find some Corsair or Seasonic (some Corsair PSU are actually Seasonic) that have good power rating (650W-and up) and still maintain a low decibel/noise)....something to consider.
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#37 galzohar

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 05:22 PM

5850 is great, should blaze through any current game.

i5-760, as far as I understand, is a slightly higher clocked i5-750, which I know people have been using to run Arma 2 on maximum settings. Its price is comparable to top-end dual/quad core CPUs yet it is so much better. Great choice as well IMO.

4GB of ram is more than enough for most stuff, but depending on what you intend to do you may want more (ex: Running a ramdisk for Arma 2 to eliminate stutter of reading textures from the hard drive or other similar crazy-ram-intensive uses). Not much point in going faster than 1333MHz, so sticking with that speed is cool.

PSU I have no idea about yours, but an Enermax pro82+ 525W should be more than plenty (assuming you don't plan on doing any crazy upgrades later that would eat up a lot more power). My brother's PC runs with this PSU using i5-750 and my old HD4890 (which is similar in power consumption to HD5850), and that PSU is should be a good brand that you can count on.

As for 2 HDDs, not really needed, just partition the one you are buying properly. If you have any data of truly critical importance you should back that up on a separate machine anyway.


If what you listed is right in terms of budget, and you're sure about your PSU, then I'd say go for it.

Edited by galzohar, 24 September 2010 - 05:23 PM.

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#38 Psychomorph

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 05:45 PM

@WhiteKnight77:
Diskeeper; Will look into it, thanks.

@Cpl Ledanek:
Well two HD's, one for the OS and other for other stuff was my plan, but all the smaller sized HD's that I found online are almost same price as the 1TB I want to go for, so I guess I resort it later and as galzohar said, two partitions act as two HD's where the one can be formatted and reinstalled any day without to lose the content of the other. Two separate HD's are only good for the case one of them gets a hardware error, so the other remains intact. I guess I upgrade later if needed.
While at that, is there a way to move the OS from one HD to another without a full reinstall? Would be good if I decide to give Win7 it's own HD. Also, if I install Win7 32bit, can I just upgrade to 64bit without a complete reinstall?

You suggest the "SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB". The one I want to go for is actually a "SAMSUNG Spinpoint F2 HD103SI 1TB", both are SATA-II. Does anyone has a clue what's the difference? I guess the F3 is better than the F2, but how exactly? Perhaps faster?

@galzohar:
Thanks, sounds great.  :thumbsup:

I go with 4GB RAM for now. I can upgrade any time. I only wonder if I should install Win7 64bit from the beginning, or upgrade to 64bit once I upgrade the RAM? Probably a stupid question, but I sometimes see that 64bit users have driver problems and other issues, while the 32bit users seem to have it easier. Perhaps that used to be the case in the past.

As for the PSU, I'm still unsure about my choice, it is quite cheap and is more of a no-name thing (probably local no-name product, so you won't find much English information about that I guess). It has good reviews, but also some negative, but I guess it's no surprise, it works for some and fails for others. Still unsure, lol.
Would you guys rather urge me to go for a more "established" brand?
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#39 Cpl Ledanek

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 05:56 PM

if I find the exploding "no-name" PSU, would you buy a name brand then?
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#40 Cpl Ledanek

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Posted 24 September 2010 - 06:25 PM

View PostPsychomorph, on Sep 24 2010, 06:45 PM, said:

You suggest the "SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB". The one I want to go for is actually a "SAMSUNG Spinpoint F2 HD103SI 1TB", both are SATA-II. Does anyone has a clue what's the difference? I guess the F3 is better than the F2, but how exactly? Perhaps faster?

:hmm: just realized that :hmm:

if you can find a less than 500GB Spinpoint F3/F4 you might get under $50 (sorry about the conversion again)

I even though about getting a Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD1200BEVT 120GB (notebook drive for low speed low heat low noise) at one point, but got lucky with my Spinpoint on sale
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