[orkan]

Caliber, on 27 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Really, it falls on both the community and devs to keep a game as clean as possible.

Exactly.

So what I'd like to see is for blackfoot to implement the best cheat prevention mechanisms that they can, and then provide the community a method to get rid of them in pub games.  That way if a player suspects someone is cheating, they can check them out somehow.  Either by pulling a screen shot that is tagged with their player profile, or a "report" function that goes to devs or trusted community members that can observer that player.

... or something.

[Jonathan Conley]

orkan, on 27 June 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Exactly.

So what I'd like to see is for blackfoot to implement the best cheat prevention mechanisms that they can, and then provide the community a method to get rid of them in pub games.  That way if a player suspects someone is cheating, they can check them out somehow.  Either by pulling a screen shot that is tagged with their player profile, or a "report" function that goes to devs or trusted community members that can observer that player.

... or something.

This is all automated by Valve with VAC (which is free to Steamworks developers, like ourselves).  VAC bans are automatic, and are only reviewed when contested, or when something is identified as a false-positive, during a yearly audit.

Things like code-injectors are automatically flagged.  It's very hard to cheat in a VAC-protected game.  Not impossible, but very difficult.

And honestly, if that's what's preventing you from backing our game, which is otherwise perfect for you and your clan, then I'm afraid you will have the same problems with any game (even on consoles).  So in that regard, it seems a non-issue to me.  People will always find a way to circumvent a system.  At the very least, we have the resources of Valve at our disposal.

Ultimately, the community is their own best defense in the case of things like cheaters.  We will be using VAC and any other tools that make sense.  That's all that I can say, really.

[Lightspeed]

Well my view is that the Recordable Game that was implemented in Original Ghost Recon was the best tool for finding hackers in a game. You will never be able to stop hackers but a tool like this with an honest and independent judge and jury will help to weed out the majority of the hackers.

For context, I started playing Ghost Recon MP at a site called International Gaming Syndicate (IGS) and we were playing 3-month cycles with games set up on the fly through GameSpy. With the 30+ clans matching constantly there were 1000's of games being played in a cycle and the Recordable Game was the best (not perfect)tool we had. The hackers new they were at high risk of being caught bcoz of the tool.

What failed was the ability to ban these hackers for life or to prevent them from creating new accounts. So as quickly as they got banned, they could create a new account, jump back into the old clan and continue with their dishonest behaviour.

I like Okon's concept behind linking to a real life identity. Not saying that attaching to CC is the best option but it is on the right track. I for one, gave up MP bcoz of hackers but would go back to MP gaming if I didn't have to worry about them. I would also be prepared to link my real life id to my gaming avatar becoz I am honest and will stand by it.

I think this is a v important topic but one at risk of heading off on a tangent.

What I would like to see whether that means creating a new thread is how BFS will tackle/resolve the issue and some healthy discussion around it. We know the hackers are there - how do we resolve it to the best of our combined ability through a combination of AC, Accounts checking, fees if thats what it takes, etc.

[Jsonedecker]

orkan, on 27 June 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Exactly.

So what I'd like to see is for blackfoot to implement the best cheat prevention mechanisms that they can, and then provide the community a method to get rid of them in pub games.  That way if a player suspects someone is cheating, they can check them out somehow.  Either by pulling a screen shot that is tagged with their player profile, or a "report" function that goes to devs or trusted community members that can observer that player.

... or something.

Yes, that is exactly what we plan to do. We will provide the best SW side protection we can and then also provide in game recording features so that the community can at least monitor itself that way. If proof is provided of a hacker to us then we can take appropriate action. I'm not sure what else we can do other than that.

[MurDoc]

I think OP wants this:

[Colin]

"I simply hope against hope... that Ground Branch is void of cheaters. "


Well my friend if we dont get the backers we will never find out.

[Demon_Mustang]

You know what you should do. You guys (BFS) should have a few "invite only" servers and only allow us forum regulars and/or donators (I donated on KS dammit, lol) and if anyone cheats you just ban them. So maybe at least for us we will have a few servers where we know we can play a bunch of fair games without having to worry about cheaters. :-)

[V2_Bloodline]

Damn it I am still writing up an idea for anonymous multiplayer. Hope it doesn't get shot down too quickly when I post it up. Otherwise it needs some safety measures that I hadn't think of in place.

[WhiteKnight77]

One of the things I found that kept cheaters at bay was running my own server and hosting Coop games. It made it to not worthwhile to cheat as you weren't playing against other players as in PvP or TvT games.

[Vozd]

Jsonedecker, on 27 June 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

Yes, that is exactly what we plan to do. We will provide the best SW side protection we can and then also provide in game recording features so that the community can at least monitor itself that way. If proof is provided of a hacker to us then we can take appropriate action. I'm not sure what else we can do other than that.

That is very sensible.  Personally, I am satisfied with your approach to the problem.  When, and if, somebody shows up with a better idea/solution to address this issue I will happily support it.  Until that happens we will have to be realistic and walk path that has been already made for us.  Bottom line is, I would rather have this game and deal with arising problems than not have the game and still deal with problems that plague online gaming.

Few more lines:
- As long as I can IP ban cheater from my dedicated server, I am fine.  Not perfect, but satisfactory.
- Bare in mind that although cheaters will be among us, they still prefer "high" profile games (i.e. COD and BF series; after all, following is much greater there) and arcadish FPS games (i.e. bunny-hopping, bullet sponge characters, run'n'gun game-play, etc...).  The GB is thankfully none of those two - although I hope it does become a "high" profile game over the time.  This type of game is too "slow" for average "1337" children and much more appealing to a more mature crowd.  Of course, this is generalization - we will see low-life players (read - cheaters), and we will ban them.

Edited by Vozd, 28 June 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[V2_Bloodline]

Welcome to the forums, Vozd!

[Vozd]

Thank you, sir.  Am happy to join the crowd and show some support to this project.

[TheButcher]

I think one of the best ways to combat hackers is to ensure that you support the true lifeblood of PC gaming. The clans.

By giving us dedicated server files, and full control, combined with the best available anti cheat, we regulate the servers, and have no issue banning as needed.

Perhaps a registry of clans that can submit their teams to be included in a new category in the server browser. "Clan servers" or "BFS Certified Clan servers", something to that nature.

Proposed implementation:
1) Clan leader registers team and server with BFS
2) All clan members register and enter GUID
3) System like PBBanns is manditory to qualify to be included in this browser tab
4) Script from BFS is run to monitor PBBans stream, if a GUID is banned for cheating, and it matches a GUID in a registered clan, that clan server is removed from the certified tab
5) Some sort of process for a clan that has been removed for harboring a hacker in their ranks where they can petition to be re added to the tab.

A combination of Good clans that police their servers, and a method to get rid of hacking clans, would give a list of places to go for Good Clean Games.

Thoughts?

[Jsonedecker]

Those are all good solutions.

[Lightspeed]

WhiteKnight77, on 28 June 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

One of the things I found that kept cheaters at bay was running my own server and hosting Coop games. It made it to not worthwhile to cheat as you weren't playing against other players as in PvP or TvT games.

Doesn't really apply though mate bcoz these players want to play PvP but want an honest playground when they do it. As I said earlier, I stopped playing PvP bcoz of the cheaters in the end and switched to COOP. I would love to be able to play PvP again though and feel like im not getting beaten with cheats.

[WhiteKnight77]

Even when my GR server got full and had more than 8 people, we would play PvP and TvT games again, with no cheaters. Then again, it was people from GR.net that joined the games and all were like minded. I didn't even have to password protect it so cheaters would not join.

[Feertti]

I think that it would be good if some Anti-Cheat Organization take this game under their wings eg. ACI
They can support server hosters with banlists, backround checking and other features

[MassiveAttack]

Hello everyone :-D

I think that this situation with hackers/cheaters is very simple to understand but we have to go a little deeper than simply saying that cheating is bad or good.

Its all about creativity and how serious it is.    
Just because someone has the tools to make something doesn't make him "creative".  
Its the energy and level of seriousness that's put into its creation that will actually put a quality of "creativity".
All developers/creaters have the tools to create. But that quality of creativity is rare.  
Remember, life functions the same way -  You are who you attract.
And what I mean by that last statement, is that the creativity of this creation/game will alone attract its players.  
And because I already see a great maturity and a high seriousness of this game, I am not worried of what type of gamers it will attract.
For almost a decade the pc gaming community has been receiving games with no deep creativity, seriousness. Therefore has been plagued by hackers/cheaters and unsatisfied players.  

GB, because of its deep seriousness and creativity that has been put into it, will attract serious and honest players.
So, the existence of this game alone will greatly filter these "cheaters/hackers/none-serious" players.

So from my point of view,  I am not even thinking about these "cheaters".

Massive attack


Game quality predicts playing quality ;-)

[Colin]

True